2024-25 Season

[RoyalBlu]

22 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

 

Groce thanked Dustin Ford for all of his hard work in working out the schedule so I got the sense that he's the primary guy in charge of scheduling.   He also spoke of just how easy it was to schedule his first year when everyone knew they had limited talent and how it's become tougher and tougher with the improvement in the program.

 

I stand on the opinion -- you can get one or two of those games a year if you really want them. It's up to Groce, not Ford, to get those games. He's got the relationships.

 

[clarkwgriswold]

10 minutes ago, RoyalBlu said:

 

I stand on the opinion -- you can get one or two of those games a year if you really want them. It's up to Groce, not Ford, to get those games. He's got the relationships.

 

 

Stand away.  I'm not arguing with you.  I'm stating what Groce said at the reception.

[NWAkron]

1 hour ago, clarkwgriswold said:

 

Stand away.  I'm not arguing with you.  I'm stating what Groce said at the reception.

Groce can't be trusted, and he immediately needs to take Ford to task for this scheduling.  Not sure how he can trust Ford again.  Why aren't the Zips doing a home and home with DePaul?  He knows their coach.  He also know Matta.  There should be a sweet home and home deal with Butler.

[RoyalBlu]

And let's face it. Playing Ohio, Toledo, Kent or Akron - to a P5 school - are all about the same.

 

Not arguing, just explaining. Please indulge my pet peeve one last time. Taking the above as the baseline. 

 

FIRST, I WAS WRONG ABOUT A COUPLE OF THINGS.

 

First - based on Today's KENPOM St. Mary's is 41, Princeton 81, Yale 102 and Ark State 120 - and that's after defeating the Zips in the opener. So there is some strength in the Zips non-con mid-major schedule. Still, how many of those teams are going to rise through the Top 100 ranks once their league play begins. (BTW, no surprise Akron and Kent are top MAC teams in KENPOM at 129 and 131).

 

Second - Among the four teams above in terms of scheduling P-5 and A-10 teams, using Groce's timeline (2018-2019 season through 2023-2024) the Zips are not the worst.

 

Toledo is clearly the worst with just nine such games, including 4 A-10 games with one win (Richmond, '22). Take away the 4 A 10s, and that's just 5 P-5 non-con games in the last six years. For the multi-time MAC Champs, that's really pathetic.

 

Akron, however, is next with 11 games since 18-19, also with 4 A-10 games and 2 wins, both A-10 (St. Bona, '18, UMass, '20). I also included a game vs. then No. 6 Nevada in '19. Otherwise, it would be just 10 P-5 games with four of them A-10. That's really poor IMO for a proven multi NCAA Tournament head coach.

 

Ohio is next with 12 games, including 2 A-10s and 1 win A-10 (St. Bona, '19). But I will also add that same non-conference season the Bobcats also played Villanova, Baylor, Utah and Purdue. That's a Charlie Coles schedule - for those with a little MAC history. None of the four top MAC teams have played a non-con schedule close to that since.

 

The it's Kent with 13 P-5 games, there's just one A-10 team on that list but I'm counting games with Gonzaga and St. Mary's instead. Kent has 3 wins (Vanderbilt '18), (Oregon State '18), (George Washington '21). That's SEC, PAC-12, A-10.

 

Frankly over the last six years, only Ohio and Kent even average 2 such games a season, which is atrocious in my mind. We're talking about all four coaches comfortably safe in their jobs, all established winners, 3 w/NCAA Tournament credentials and none close to being on the hot seat. Kowalczk and Groce in particular should really be looking in the mirror.

 

Scheduling P-5 games are about relationships. These four well established, winning, coaches should have no problem getting 2 or 3 such games a season. Yes, 9 out of 10 will be on the road. But man up.  You can still get Walsh at home.

 

[NWAkron]

7 minutes ago, RoyalBlu said:

And let's face it. Playing Ohio, Toledo, Kent or Akron - to a P5 school - are all about the same.

 

Not arguing, just explaining. Please indulge my pet peeve one last time. Taking the above as the baseline. 

 

FIRST, I WAS WRONG ABOUT A COUPLE OF THINGS.

 

First - based on Today's KENPOM St. Mary's is 41, Princeton 81, Yale 102 and Ark State 120 - and that's after defeating the Zips in the opener. So there is some strength in the Zips non-con mid-major schedule. Still, how many of those teams are going to rise through the Top 100 ranks once their league play begins. (BTW, no surprise Akron and Kent are top MAC teams in KENPOM at 129 and 131).

 

Second - Among the four teams above in terms of scheduling P-5 and A-10 teams, using Groce's timeline (2018-2019 season through 2023-2024) the Zips are not the worst.

 

Toledo is clearly the worst with just nine such games, including 4 A-10 games with one win (Richmond, '22). Take away the 4 A 10s, and that's just 5 P-5 non-con games in the last six years. For the multi-time MAC Champs, that's really pathetic.

 

Akron, however, is next with 11 games since 18-19, also with 4 A-10 games and 2 wins, both A-10 (St. Bona, '18, UMass, '20). I also included a game vs. then No. 6 Nevada in '19. Otherwise, it would be just 10 P-5 games with four of them A-10. That's really poor IMO for a proven multi NCAA Tournament head coach.

 

Ohio is next with 12 games, including 2 A-10s and 1 win A-10 (St. Bona, '19). But I will also add that same non-conference season the Bobcats also played Villanova, Baylor, Utah and Purdue. That's a Charlie Coles schedule - for those with a little MAC history. None of the four top MAC teams have played a non-con schedule close to that since.

 

The it's Kent with 13 P-5 games, there's just one A-10 team on that list but I'm counting games with Gonzaga and St. Mary's instead. Kent has 3 wins (Vanderbilt '18), (Oregon State '18), (George Washington '21). That's SEC, PAC-12, A-10.

 

Frankly over the last six years, only Ohio and Kent even average 2 such games a season, which is atrocious in my mind. We're talking about all four coaches comfortably safe in their jobs, all established winners, 3 w/NCAA Tournament credentials and none close to being on the hot seat. Kowalczk and Groce in particular should really be looking in the mirror.

 

Scheduling P-5 games are about relationships. These four well established, winning, coaches should have no problem getting 2 or 3 such games a season. Yes, 9 out of 10 will be on the road. But man up.  You can still get Walsh at home.

 

You really should catch Groce and Ford after a game and tell them to "man up."  

[zippy5]

3 would be a lot, 0 isn't enough, imo

[clarkwgriswold]

12 hours ago, RoyalBlu said:

And let's face it. Playing Ohio, Toledo, Kent or Akron - to a P5 school - are all about the same.

 

Not arguing, just explaining. Please indulge my pet peeve one last time. Taking the above as the baseline. 

 

FIRST, I WAS WRONG ABOUT A COUPLE OF THINGS.

 

First - based on Today's KENPOM St. Mary's is 41, Princeton 81, Yale 102 and Ark State 120 - and that's after defeating the Zips in the opener. So there is some strength in the Zips non-con mid-major schedule. Still, how many of those teams are going to rise through the Top 100 ranks once their league play begins. (BTW, no surprise Akron and Kent are top MAC teams in KENPOM at 129 and 131).

 

Second - Among the four teams above in terms of scheduling P-5 and A-10 teams, using Groce's timeline (2018-2019 season through 2023-2024) the Zips are not the worst.

 

Toledo is clearly the worst with just nine such games, including 4 A-10 games with one win (Richmond, '22). Take away the 4 A 10s, and that's just 5 P-5 non-con games in the last six years. For the multi-time MAC Champs, that's really pathetic.

 

Akron, however, is next with 11 games since 18-19, also with 4 A-10 games and 2 wins, both A-10 (St. Bona, '18, UMass, '20). I also included a game vs. then No. 6 Nevada in '19. Otherwise, it would be just 10 P-5 games with four of them A-10. That's really poor IMO for a proven multi NCAA Tournament head coach.

 

Ohio is next with 12 games, including 2 A-10s and 1 win A-10 (St. Bona, '19). But I will also add that same non-conference season the Bobcats also played Villanova, Baylor, Utah and Purdue. That's a Charlie Coles schedule - for those with a little MAC history. None of the four top MAC teams have played a non-con schedule close to that since.

 

The it's Kent with 13 P-5 games, there's just one A-10 team on that list but I'm counting games with Gonzaga and St. Mary's instead. Kent has 3 wins (Vanderbilt '18), (Oregon State '18), (George Washington '21). That's SEC, PAC-12, A-10.

 

Frankly over the last six years, only Ohio and Kent even average 2 such games a season, which is atrocious in my mind. We're talking about all four coaches comfortably safe in their jobs, all established winners, 3 w/NCAA Tournament credentials and none close to being on the hot seat. Kowalczk and Groce in particular should really be looking in the mirror.

 

Scheduling P-5 games are about relationships. These four well established, winning, coaches should have no problem getting 2 or 3 such games a season. Yes, 9 out of 10 will be on the road. But man up.  You can still get Walsh at home.

 

 

Fair enough.  Good job with the numbers.  I think we would all like to see some top notch OOC games, especially at the JAR.  That being said, when similarly situated programs are having similar OOC schedules it tells me that maybe it is a "difficulty" thing across the board for decent mid-majors rather than UA not adequately scheduling.

 

Another story Groce told at the reception was that after they played a very tight game against a more prominent opponent that was coached by a friend of his as they were walking through the handshake line the coach leaned into him and told him "we are NEVER playing you again."  I suspect that may have been Huggins after the West Virginia game.

Edited November 8 by clarkwgriswold

[LZIp]

3 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

Another story Groce told at the reception was that after they played a very tight game against a more prominent opponent that was coached by a friend of his as they were walking through the handshake line the coach leaned into him and told him "we are NEVER playing you again."  I suspect that may have been Huggins after the West Virginia game.

or potentially Matta/Holtman (whoever it was at the time) as OSU.

[1981 grad]

Am I the only one to see the irony of this discussion.  In the football forum, we complain that the football team plays 3 of its first 4 games against power conferences.  In the basketball forum, we complain that we do not play enough games against power conferences.  I am going to make one prediction about tonight's game,  we will not fall behind 17-0 like we did against Colgate in football. 

[LZIp]

22 minutes ago, 1981 grad said:

Am I the only one to see the irony of this discussion.  In the football forum, we complain that the football team plays 3 of its first 4 games against power conferences.  In the basketball forum, we complain that we do not play enough games against power conferences.  I am going to make one prediction about tonight's game,  we will not fall behind 17-0 like we did against Colgate in football. 

It’s far from an apples to apples comparison. 

[RoyalBlu]

2 hours ago, LZIp said:

It’s far from an apples to apples comparison. 

 

Absolutely right!

 

FB plays those games for $$$ to bolster the entire athletic department and really not expected to be competitive. It's the cost of doing business as a FB mid-major. A BB mid-major on the other hand - along with solid recruiting/coaching - can not just be competitive in many of those games P5, but pull realistic upsets occasionally which bolster the team and the league.

 

As an aside, why the MAC doesn't mandate these $$$ FB contracts must include a basketball game within a 3-year window as well is beyond me. That would solve a lot of the BB P5 schedule problem. And unlike BB, the ADs usually negotiate the FB deals, not the coaches.

 

[Blue & Gold]

 

[RoyalBlu]

5 hours ago, Blue & Gold said:

 

 

Another pet peeve (and I know I'm losing this one before I even start ... but)

 

The MAC CHAMPIONS are the Toledo Rockets

The MAC Tournament winner/Champions are the Akron Zips

The fact the 'reward' for winning the tournament is greater than the 'reward' for winning the regular season title, in my mind, does not negate the greater accomplishment (18-games vs. 3 games).

 

But that's just me.

 

[NWAkron]

5 minutes ago, RoyalBlu said:

 

 

But that's just me.

 

Yeah, just you.

[zippy5]

Nah, we're the MAC champions

[RoyalBlu]

Hey ...

I get it. If you can legitimately claim it, then claim it. I think you can raise a banner either way. I'm just too old school, and I understand that.

 

But I actually ache when teams (Akron in the past) do so much to win a regular season championship to somehow have it 'dismissed' for not winning 3 games in March.

 

 

[Zippy87]

2 hours ago, RoyalBlu said:

 

Another pet peeve (and I know I'm losing this one before I even start ... but)

 

The MAC CHAMPIONS are the Toledo Rockets

The MAC Tournament winner/Champions are the Akron Zips

The fact the 'reward' for winning the tournament is greater than the 'reward' for winning the regular season title, in my mind, does not negate the greater accomplishment (18-games vs. 3 games).

 

But that's just me.

 

 

Only teams that win the tournament are remembered as the very best. It may not be fair, but it's true.

[RoyalBlu]

More and more 'fairness' is becoming a very lost element in our moral fiber. And sadly I'm just not talking about sports.