The World of College Basketball

[Reslife4Life]

1 hour ago, RoyalBlu said:

I wonder if folks truly understand how much $$$ is at stake for the MAC getting a second bid? It's not a 1-year payday, it's a 5-year payday, and higher if one or both MAC teams advance a round or two.

 

Being a Top 12 league may have been enough to get Miami an at-large. Now, giving Miami an at-large only incentivizes other teams to play weak schedules, build gaudy records, then expect the NCAA to give them a pass into the tournament. Believe me, the NCAA is not going to open that can of worms by giving Miami an at-large bid.

 

The only way Miami gets an at large is if they go 33-1 and lose to us in the final. And that's if its a championship game like last year. Even if you have *insert mid-major team here* with a non-conference schedule like Miami's they still have to play at least 18 conference games, and going undefeated in that is no cakewalk. Even if Western Kentucky plays the entire NEC and SWAC in noncon that isn't going to help them prepare for the conference schedule, much less a conference tournament

[kreed5120]

2 minutes ago, Reslife4Life said:

The only way Miami gets an at large is if they go 33-1 and lose to us in the final. And that's if its a championship game like last year. Even if you have *insert mid-major team here* with a non-conference schedule like Miami's they still have to play at least 18 conference games, and going undefeated in that is no cakewalk. Even if Western Kentucky plays the entire NEC and SWAC in noncon that isn't going to help them prepare for the conference schedule, much less a conference tournament

 

Yes, I'm still not penciling Miami winning out this regular season, but the pathway looks more manageable now. The last team to go undefeated in MAC conference play was Miami in 1958. Back then the conference season was only 12 games.

 

People act like Miami has created this path that is easy to replicate. The fact is it's not easy to go undefeated in MAC play if it takes 70 years to happen. We've experienced some fantastic MAC teams, several even objectively better than this Miami team, and none of them were able to accomplish the feat. If going 18-0 in MAC play was easy we would have already achieved it under Dambrot or Groce.

[Zippy87]

13 hours ago, RoyalBlu said:

If Miami fails to be an NCAA Tournament at-large team this season, every team in the MAC should look in the mirror, then call Miami and tell them 'we're sorry.'  Folks will say they beat nobody.

 

If Miami doesn't get an at-large, Miami only has themselves to blame. They knew they had a really good team this year and still rolled with one of the worst OOC schedules in D1. 

[AkronAlumnus]

1 hour ago, kreed5120 said:

 

Yes, I'm still not penciling Miami winning out this regular season, but the pathway looks more manageable now. The last team to go undefeated in MAC conference play was Miami in 1958. Back then the conference season was only 12 games.

 

People act like Miami has created this path that is easy to replicate. The fact is it's not easy to go undefeated in MAC play if it takes 70 years to happen. We've experienced some fantastic MAC teams, several even objectively better than this Miami team, and none of them were able to accomplish the feat. If going 18-0 in MAC play was easy we would have already achieved it under Dambrot or Groce.

I see both sides.  You're right—it's very difficult to run the table (MAC play), but Akron could have done it last year.  If you replace the game at OU with a home game vs. Eastern, the Zips could have run the table too.  Now juxtapose that against Miami not having to come to Akron this year. 

Edited February 19 by AkronAlumnus

[ZippyRulz]

There are 37 at-large bids in the NCAA tourney. Miami currently sits at #22 in the AP poll. If they only lose in the MAC tourney they should still be in the top 37 ; not saying they wouldn't get significantly snubbed however. As things stand now, if we meet them in Cleveland I believe they would be favored.

 

[kreed5120]

8 minutes ago, AkronAlumnus said:

I see both sides.  You're right—it's very difficult to run the table (MAC play), but Akron could have done it last year.  If you replace the game at OU with a home game vs. Eastern, the Zips could have run the table too.  Now juxtapose that against Miami not having to come to Akron this year. 

 

Why would we play 10 conference home games and 8 conference road games as you propose in your scenario?

 

OU wasn't even a good team last year. They finished #195 in Kenpom. You can't just simply state well if you eliminate all the games we lost we would be undefeated. Well no crap. The game was played and we lost. We also didn't have to play @ Miami, who was clearly the MAC's 2nd best team last season, but nobody talks about that.

 

The fact is over a long season you have slip ups. We had many last year. Milwaukee, Princeton, and Ohio were all teams that we had no business losing to, but still did. That great UB team a few years back should have beaten NIU by 20+, but lost. 

 

If Miami goes 18-0 in conference play this might be the only undefeated (in conference play) MAC team any of see in our lifetimes. If the MAC expands to 22 games that feat becomes even more challenging. No team will be able to easily replicate their run.

[Zippy87]

I think the Miami discussion can be simplified pretty easily:

 

1) They are a very good team, and winning as much as they have is very difficult to do.

2) Their run was made possible in part because of one of the easiest OOC schedules in the country and a fortunate MAC schedule (no game at Akron, only one game vs Kent State). 

 

Both of these can be true at the same time. 

[RoyalBlu]

6 hours ago, kreed5120 said:

 

Why would we play 10 conference home games and 8 conference road games as you propose in your scenario?

 

OU wasn't even a good team last year. They finished #195 in Kenpom. You can't just simply state well if you eliminate all the games we lost we would be undefeated. Well no crap. The game was played and we lost. We also didn't have to play @ Miami, who was clearly the MAC's 2nd best team last season, but nobody talks about that.

 

The fact is over a long season you have slip ups. We had many last year. Milwaukee, Princeton, and Ohio were all teams that we had no business losing to, but still did. That great UB team a few years back should have beaten NIU by 20+, but lost. 

 

If Miami goes 18-0 in conference play this might be the only undefeated (in conference play) MAC team any of see in our lifetimes. If the MAC expands to 22 games that feat becomes even more challenging. No team will be able to easily replicate their run.

 

I think I read on the Toledo forum the MAC is going to a 22-game schedule next year. In fact, it's doubtful Miami's run would have happened if the league were still in divisions. That would guarantee Miami would have played Akron-Kent-Umass-Ohio Buffalo twice each. Then one game each vs. all MAC West teams except two, likely Ball State and Toledo. Credit Miami with weathering a perfect storm.

 

 

 

[AkronAlumnus]

 

[Illini Zip]

1 hour ago, AkronAlumnus said:

 

That’s a whole lotta sweaters. 

[kreed5120]

$280 million seems excessive. I really hope it's largely donor funded because that would be a lot of burden to place on tax payers or students if the plan is to use the general fund. 

[Zips1991]

12 hours ago, kreed5120 said:

$280 million seems excessive. I really hope it's largely donor funded because that would be a lot of burden to place on tax payers or students if the plan is to use the general fund. 

Everything I've seen online points towards the new arena being very unpopular with alumni. It will be interesting to see how the vote goes.

[Let'sGoZips94]

15 hours ago, AkronAlumnus said:

 

 

Leave it to Miami OH to build a steel/glass exterior and cover it up with brick walls that seemingly serve no purpose other than having bricks in the esthetic. $281M is unbelievably absurd, but when your concessions include the finest wine and cheese around, what else should we expect? What a perfect example of why I dislike that school and hope they get nothing this year like the similarly entitled kids in Willy Wonka. 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Let'sGoZips94

[Reslife4Life]

I feel like this is an awkward time for them to do this. After having however many games in a row with almost 10k people they might advocate for an even larger arena. But if they do that and their support regresses to the mean it will be embarrassingly empty in there. 

[kreed5120]

1 hour ago, Reslife4Life said:

I feel like this is an awkward time for them to do this. After having however many games in a row with almost 10k people they might advocate for an even larger arena. But if they do that and their support regresses to the mean it will be embarrassingly empty in there. 

 

The size isn't the problem. The proposal is for a 6,500 seat arena, which sounds reasonable.

 

It's all the extras that are running up the cost. There is talks of having 2 practice courts in this complex, a separate volleyball court/arena, and new athletic department offices. I'm sure there are lots of high end premium seating that is also running up the cost. They're telling people this arena will attract tons of concerts and other events, but Miami County barely has 100k. I'm not sure how many headliners are going to be eager to perform there. Maybe some B or C tier performers.

Edited 2 hours ago by kreed5120

[zippy5]

It's the perfect timing, when else will they have as much public support for this as they do now?

[Reslife4Life]

It didn’t say the size in the article, I’m glad that they are going for a smaller venue. I’m that case I’m all for it. Better arenas in the conference make it more attractive (at least in my eyes). I went to BG this year and loved it

[clarkwgriswold]

1 hour ago, kreed5120 said:

 

The size isn't the problem. The proposal is for a 6,500 seat arena, which sounds reasonable.

 

It's all the extras that are running up the cost. There is talks of having 2 practice courts in this complex, a separate volleyball court/arena, and new athletic department offices. I'm sure there are lots of high end premium seating that is also running up the cost. They're telling people this arena will attract tons of concerts and other events, but Miami County barely has 100k. I'm not sure how many headliners are going to be eager to perform there. Maybe some B or C tier performers.

$281 million estimated.

[kreed5120]

1 minute ago, clarkwgriswold said:

$281 million estimated.

 

Good point, it will be well north of $300 million after budget run overs that happen with any project of this size

[kreed5120]

19 minutes ago, Reslife4Life said:

It didn’t say the size in the article, I’m glad that they are going for a smaller venue. I’m that case I’m all for it. Better arenas in the conference make it more attractive (at least in my eyes). I went to BG this year and loved it

 

The Stroh Center was built for about 10% of this cost and was almost entirely booster funded. Even after adjusting for inflation the Stroh Center would be $43 million. It was done the right way IMO. ~$50M-$100M seems reasonable for a MAC arena. 

 

Edit: There is no need for these cathedrals that sole purpose is to pad an ADs resumé who will long be gone before the financial ramifications become a giant anchor to the athletic department and school finances.

Edited 1 hour ago by kreed5120

[Zips1991]

38 minutes ago, Reslife4Life said:

It didn’t say the size in the article, I’m glad that they are going for a smaller venue. I’m that case I’m all for it. Better arenas in the conference make it more attractive (at least in my eyes). I went to BG this year and loved it

The only MAC arena I've been to other than the JAR is Kent. Both are terrible. From what I can tell on TV, most of the arenas in the MAC are terrible other than BG (although I think it's too small). They all seem old or way too big. 

EDIT: This excludes UMass, as I forgot they are in the MAC and haven't seen it as much on TV to get a good look.

Edited 55 minutes ago by Zips1991

[kreed5120]

2 minutes ago, Zips1991 said:

The only MAC arena I've been to other than the JAR is Kent. Both are terrible. From what I can tell on TV, most of the arenas in the MAC are terrible other than BG (although I think it's too small). They all seem old or way too big. 

 

Outside of Toledo how often does BG really sell out? For them 4,300 feels like the correct size. For schools like Toledo or OU, who have historically drawn better, it would be too small. 

[Let'sGoZips94]

48 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

 

The Stroh Center was built for about 10% of this cost and was almost entirely booster funded. Even after adjusting for inflation the Stroh Center would be $43 million. It was done the right way IMO. ~$50M-$100M seems reasonable for a MAC arena. 

 

Edit: There is no need for these cathedrals that sole purpose is to pad an ADs resumé who will long be gone before the financial ramifications become a giant anchor to the athletic department and school finances.

 

GP1? Is that you?

[kreed5120]

13 minutes ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

 

GP1? Is that you?

 

This gave me a good chuckle as I can see the comparison, thank you!

 

I'm just more tired of seeing Ohioans hard earned dollars going to waste because of vanity projects. We need fiscal responsibility.

[Zips1991]

46 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

 

Outside of Toledo how often does BG really sell out? For them 4,300 feels like the correct size. For schools like Toledo or OU, who have historically drawn better, it would be too small. 

Speaking of Toledo, they seem to have a nice arena. But again, I've never been there. Looks nice on TV though.