Game 11- Murray State

[1981 grad]

8 minutes ago, Illini Zip said:

I will try…Halligan brings defensive understanding and effort. We have plenty of offense right now. We need to figure out how to stop teams. Or maybe Groce is sending the team a message???

When Halligan came in, he stood out defensively and the Zips went on an 8-0 run.  And nobody else stood out defensively today.  He deserved the time.  

[Captain Kangaroo]

3 hours ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

I’m getting a good feeling about this game!

Didn’t last long…

[Let'sGoZips94]

I understand defense is going to be a point of conversation, but it's really hard to get mad when our only 2 mid major losses have statistically ridiculous box scores. Yale and Murray State could run simulated games in practice with zero defenders, take the same shots they did vs us, and not shoot nearly as well as they ended up shooting vs us. 56% from 3 on 32 attempts is unbelievably absurd. That's 54 pts from 3P alone. If Murray State shoots an above-average 40%, that's 13 3P which is 15 less points; Murray State won by 15, and they're a 36.1% 3P shooting team on the season. Murray State committed 18 turnovers; I know some of those are probably self-inflicted, but Akron was doing something right on defense as well. Yet again, a team needed to have a historic night to beat Akron and they did. Akron wasn't nearly as efficient offensively as they were vs. Yale, hence the 15 pt deficit, but they still put up 100 pts. If we start seeing MAC teams shoot ~50%+ from 3P vs us, then I'll be concerned. Until then, hats off to Murray State for an incredible shooting performance. 

 

Regroup and beat the feathers off EMU. 

[Captain Kangaroo]

9 hours ago, ewbrooman1 said:

The bad news is the men's game isn't on ESPN+. The good news is that the women's game at #6 Michigan isn't either.

The women had a better showing.

[kreed5120]

Ignoring the problems isn't going to make them magically go away. Even in our wins we've consistently seen breakdowns defensively with many wide open looks. The competition just wasn't good enough to capitalize off of them. Murray State and Yale were good enough to carve us up. As will any 4 or 5 seed we encounter if the tournament if we make it that far.

 

Giving up offensive rebounds because you're not boxing out and leaving 3-pt shooters wide open because you're slow in rotation isn't a winning formula against quality teams. We should constantly be evaluating ourselves and looking for ways to improve. Other teams will be doing the same.

 

 

[clarkwgriswold]

To summarize:

 

Bad defense + good team shooting lights out = 115 points

 

On to EMU.

[ZippyRulz]

On 12/12/2025 at 8:23 PM, Zips1991 said:

174.5

 

Congrats to the degenerates that took the over.

 

[1981 grad]

17 hours ago, 1981 grad said:

Does anyone know what the record is for the most points scored against the Zips.  We might be approaching that number.

Since I did not get an answer from anyone on this board I did an AI search and got the following:

 

The highest points scored against the Zips in a game is 119, which occurred during a matchup against the University of Kentucky on December 21, 1990.

Defensive Performance

Akron typically maintains a strong defensive record, contributing to their ability to limit opponents' scoring.

Recent Trends

In recent seasons, the Zips have continued to focus on defensive strategies, further reducing the likelihood of allowing high-scoring games.

 

Well, would anyone like to comment on AI and the defensive stratagies we have employed in recent seasons to reduce the likelihood of allowing high-scoring games? (LOL)

[UAZipster0305]

8 hours ago, 1981 grad said:

Akron typically maintains a strong defensive record, contributing to their ability to limit opponents' scoring.

That is about the most AI statement ever. I think I heard Frank Caliendo say something similar when he was impersonating John Madden.

Edited yesterday at 01:15 AM by UAZipster0305

[Blue & Gold]

Neither Shammah, nor either of the Mahaffey brothers had strong games vs. Murray St. Yeah, we still put up 100 points but our defense is concerning.

 

And Murray St. looked very good.

[RoyalBlu]

2 hours ago, Blue & Gold said:

Neither Shammah, nor either of the Mahaffey brothers had strong games vs. Murray St. Yeah, we still put up 100 points but our defense is concerning.

 

And Murray St. looked very good.

 

I know/understand coaching goes through cycles, but it is a puzzle to me why two of the better most consistent and successful MAC programs the last decade or so -- built on a foundation of strong/solid defense (Akron and Kent) -- suddenly seem to turn into almost exclusively offensive programs with defense becoming clearly secondary.

 

I don't get it. One look at Toledo, or Miami, should prove that is not the way to true success. Defense travels. Offense comes and goes.

 

[Let'sGoZips94]

1 hour ago, RoyalBlu said:

 

I know/understand coaching goes through cycles, but it is a puzzle to me why two of the better most consistent and successful MAC programs the last decade or so -- built on a foundation of strong/solid defense (Akron and Kent) -- suddenly seem to turn into almost exclusively offensive programs with defense becoming clearly secondary.

 

I don't get it. One look at Toledo, or Miami, should prove that is not the way to true success. Defense travels. Offense comes and goes.

 

 

Offense wins. 

 

Houston is the one of the top defensive teams in the country and has been for several years. They have zero national championships in that span because in their final game of the season, they couldn't score more than their opponent. 

 

Akron isn't ignoring defense. Every single post game interview this season has included Groce harping that the defense needs to get better. However, if our opponent isn't shooting nearly 60%, we're winning by 20+. Akron has 3 losses, one of them to easily one of the best teams in the country. The other 2 losses, our opponent had to nearly set shooting records to outscore us; in fact, I'm not so sure they didn't. Those other 2 losses have been to some of the top mid majors in the country on neutral courts as well. I'm not so sure we lose to Yale if Barre is up to speed and playing significant minutes in that game, either. 

 

Defense is one of those things that takes longer to pull together with so many new pieces every single year in today's landscape. Shot making doesn't require chemistry and communication with rotations, help defense, etc. Maybe that's why we're seeing a shift at Akron and Kent. 

 

That being said, there aren't going to be many teams that will beat us this year without historic offensive performances because Akron's offense is legitimately that good. We've all seen Akron teams struggle to shoot 30% from 3. Didn't matter how good their defense was, they fell short plenty of times against competition that they shouldn't have because they couldn't put the ball in the hoop. The offense never came with those teams because teams can either score or they can't. Give me a team that can score at will with a coach who keeps defense a priority over a team that keeps defense a priority but struggles to score. I'm quite confident the defense will get better, but the blessing with this team is we don't have to pray for the offense to get better because history has proven that's not something that truly improves. 

[Captain Kangaroo]

7 hours ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

Houston is the one of the top defensive teams in the country and has been for several years. They have zero national championships in that span because in their final game of the season, they couldn't score more than their opponent. 

I contend that, since 1891 when James Naismith first nailed a peach basket to the wall of the YMCA Training School in Springfield MA, every basketball team who's lost their final game of the season did so because they didn't score as many points as their opponent.

[Captain Kangaroo]

7 hours ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

Every single post game interview this season has included Groce harping that the defense needs to get better. However, if our opponent isn't shooting nearly 60%, we're winning by 20+. Akron has 3 losses, one of them to easily one of the best teams in the country. The other 2 losses, our opponent had to nearly set shooting records to outscore us; in fact, I'm not so sure they didn't.

Omitted is Groce's "putrid defense" explanation - opponents aren't "feeling" the Zips defense. We are undersized, soft, and disorganized.

 

It's easy to shoot three's when you have zero fear of getting one swatted back in your face...when your opponent is sagging off and not respecting your range, when defenders are unnecessarily double-teaming and leaving great shooters wide open for corner three's.

 

The Zips can phone-it-in on defense and out-shoot a lot of mediocre-to-bad teams. If that's our defensive MO I still think we're 16-2, or better, in the MAC. But we can't beat a high mid-major or decent P4 program with the pedestrian defensive efforts we've seen so far. That's a recipe for an NCAA Tournament 13-seed, and a 21 point round 1 loss.

 

It was a gift to get Yale and Murray State on a neutral court, free from biased referees and raucous opposing crowds. And we didn't take advantage of it. 

[kreed5120]

49 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

Omitted is Groce's "putrid defense" explanation - opponents aren't "feeling" the Zips defense. We are undersized, soft, and disorganized.

 

It's easy to shoot three's when you have zero fear of getting one swatted back in your face...when your opponent is sagging off and not respecting your range, when defenders are unnecessarily double-teaming and leaving great shooters wide open for corner three's.

 

The Zips can phone-it-in on defense and out-shoot a lot of mediocre-to-bad teams. If that's our defensive MO I still think we're 16-2, or better, in the MAC. But we can't beat a high mid-major or decent P4 program with the pedestrian defensive efforts we've seen so far. That's a recipe for an NCAA Tournament 13-seed, and a 21 point round 1 loss.

 

It was a gift to get Yale and Murray State on a neutral court, free from biased referees and raucous opposing crowds. And we didn't take advantage of it. 

 

I think the spanking Murray State gave us is a blessing in disguise and yes it was a spanking. They could have easily beaten us by 25 if they didn't get called for so many moving screens. 

 

When we're beating Nobody U by 30 it's tough for Groce to convey to the team that the level of defensive play is unacceptable if you want to make noise come March. Now he has this game to point to as a reality check. 

 

Personally, I think our "havoc" or whatever defense you want to call it simply just doesn't work against teams that have quality perimeter play. It works against the cupcakes that have either inexperienced guards who are prone to turnovers or teams with poor perimeter shooters. When we play teams that can disect a defense all it does is leave an open shot at the basket or in the weak corner. If there is no defender within 8 feet of a 3-pt shooter those are pretty much practice shots. An elite 3-pt shooter, like Tavari, can probably knock down those specific wide open looks at or around a 65% clip.

Edited 1 hour ago by kreed5120

[Let'sGoZips94]

40 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

It's easy to shoot three's when you have zero fear of getting one swatted back in your face...when your opponent is sagging off and not respecting your range, when defenders are unnecessarily double-teaming and leaving great shooters wide open for corner three's.

 

That's a recipe for an NCAA Tournament 13-seed, and a 21 point round 1 loss.

 

Teams can take all the open 3s they want; they still have to make them. When Oakland beat Kentucky in the 2024 NCAA Tournament, nobody was talking about Kentucky's defense. The focus of that game was Jack Gohlke's unconcious shooting performance, making 10 of 20 3P. Oh, and the other point of conversation was Kentucky's awful shooting performance - 9/28 (32%) from 3P and 43% from the field. Earlier that day, in the same arena, Akron lost by 17 to Creighton. That Akron team was VERY defensive minded, but struggled to score. How did Akron's top notch defense do vs. Creighton? Creighton shot 57% from the field and 59% from 3P. How did Akron's offense counter? 38% from the field and 21% from 3P. A team that struggled all year offensively ultimately continued to struggle in the NCAA tournament; a team that was offensively superior all season continued to be offensive superior in the NCAA tournament. 

 

Through yesterday's games, there are...

 

9 teams with a higher FG% in the country than Akron - one of those is Yale (8th). 

 

39 teams have more 3PA per game than Akron - one of those is Murray State (29th). 

 

9 teams that make more 3P per game than Akron - Murray State is only 5 spots back and .2 less 3P made per game. 

 

14 teams have a higher 3P% than Akron - 1 of those is Yale (2nd) and Murray State is not far back at 38th. 

 

3 teams have a higher scoring offense than Akron - 1 of those is PCCC (3rd; puke), while Murray State (16th) and Yale (42nd) are not too far behind. 

 

 

My point is superior offensive teams are able to put the ball in the hoop no matter the defense to a large extent. Did Akron's defense leave open looks for Yale and Murray State? Sure, but I guarantee Akron's defense wasn't worse than some other opponents whom Yale and Murray State played and shot worse than they did vs. Akron. 

 

Yale vs. Akron 11/24: Yale shot 64% from the field and 47% from 3P

Murray State vs. Akron 12/13: Murray State shot 58% from the field and 56% from 3P

 

Yale vs. UIC (213 NET) on 12/7: Yale scored 80, shooting 43% from the field and 45% from 3P. 

 

Yale vs. Brandeis Judges (not DI) on 12/3: Yale shot 51% from the field and 30% from 3P. 

 

Yale vs. Green Bay (225 NET) 11/21: Yale shot 51% from the field and 44% from 3P. 

 

Murray State vs. Bellarmine (276 NET) 12/6: Murray State shot 53% from the field and 37% from 3P. 

 

Murray State vs. Morehead State (298 NET) 12/2: Murray State shot 43% from the field and 32% from 3P. 

 

Murray State vs. Little Rock (349 NET) 11/18: Murray State shot 51% from the field and 47% from 3P. 

 

 

I trust in Groce & his staff to get the defense tweaked enough to limit some of the open looks we've seen opponents have. However, we also need the opponent to miss the shots they take - no matter the defense - and both Yale & Murray State didn't miss much. 

[Zips1991]

27 minutes ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

I trust in Groce & his staff to get the defense tweaked enough to limit some of the open looks we've seen opponents have. 

This is what I'm banking on too. I still believe it will happen even though there's no sign of it yet. But also, the defense will look better when we're playing CMU and WMU than it did against Yale and Murray. 😆