John Groce Officially Hired

[kreed5120]

16 minutes ago, wadszip said:

 

While Groce "only" got a B- ... I'm guessing the only reason Akron was on this list of "marquee" (that's a line in the article ... from USA Today) was because of Groce. The only other non high majors acknowledged were A-10 schools Dayton/UMass/VCU. That alone makes the hire an A+ .... Also, interesting Duquesne and KD absent from this article.

My thoughts exactly when I was scrolling through that list.

[mes102]

1 hour ago, mes102 said:

Groce will be on at 5:30

Interview on this radio station

http://espncu.com/

EDIT: I forgot time zone difference. Check at 6:30 ET/5:30 CT

Apparently this started at 6:15. I will post the podcast of it when it gets posted within the next couple hours.

As for the article about grading college basketball's biggest hires, I posted it because we were on it and Duquesne wasn't even though other A-10 schools like UMass, Dayton, and VCU were on it. I thought that was interesting.

Edited April 7, 2017 by mes102

[Blue & Gold]

47 minutes ago, wadszip said:

 

While Groce "only" got a B- ... I'm guessing the only reason Akron was on this list of "marquee" (that's a line in the article ... from USA Today) was because of Groce. The only other non high majors acknowledged were A-10 schools Dayton/UMass/VCU. That alone makes the hire an A+ .... Also, interesting Duquesne and KD absent from this article.

+1.  

 

It's great just being included in an article alongside the rest of those schools on that list.

[GJGood]

4 hours ago, Blue & Gold said:

I hope Coach Groce feels ZERO pressure to keep the 21-win streak going. I want our team to grow with a more challenging non-conference schedule.

I do want him to feel some pressure to keep the 21-win streak going. We play 18 MAC regular season games and then would need to win three in Cleveland. You can go 21-0 playing just MAC schools and I'd love to see that happen.

 

I get your point though. You want to see a tougher out of conference schedule. I want that too, just not by playing a gauntlet of top 10 teams or college basketball bluebloods so that we can get pummeled repeatedly. To me two or so of those types of teams is fine coupled with a middle of the pack big name conference school in there as well.

 

I just never understood why when we're playing the conferences we usually see at home in the non-conference are the teams that we play the ones near the bottom of those conferences. Instead of playing a 8-24 MEAC team Coppin State why not play 25-9 MEAC team NC Central? I know its hard to get quality teams to come to Akron but is it that much harder to get NC Central to the JAR than it is Coppin State? if you are going to schedule teams from really weak conferences at least schedule teams near the top of those conferences when possible.

 

That and we need to seek programs similar to our own for home and home series. I'd love to see us get a deal done with Belmont, Vermont, or Florida Gulf Coast.

 

Also, the MAC needs to follow the trend of the "big boys" and get an annual conference challenge set up with another conference or round robin between conferences.

 

[72 Roo]

2 hours ago, odhgibo said:

351 teams played D-I hoops last year.

 

Half of those teams do no more than allow leagues to have 10+ teams -- Columbia, Idaho, Gardner-Webb, Radford, etc.

 

Of those in the top 175, 10-15 are blue bloods who are at or near the tops of their respective Power 5 conferences (Duke, KU, UK, UNC, Louisville, Arizona, Wisconsin, etc.), then 25-30 basketball powers who often show up in the Top 25 (Florida, Michigan, Xavier, Villanova, Butler, Iowa St., Creighton, etc.), then 25-30 programs which make the occasional foray into the upper echelons (Clemson, Ga. Tech, Alabama, Tennessee, Utah, USC, Baylor, etc.).

 

Setting aside Gonzaga, which chose to spend like a blue blood and now has entered those ranks, the best mid-major schools fit into that second tier.  Very few are in the third tier because, unfortunately, if they don't maintain the excellence necessary to stay near the top, they tend to fall past the third tier and back into the ranks of the mediocre (VCU? SDSU? Davidson?).

 

If my math is right, 100-115 teams in that great middle:  respectable, top half of their respective conferences, occasionally catching a little lightning in a bottle to jump into the top 50 for a year or two with the right coach and recruiting class.  Think Cal, Belmont, Nevada, Colorado State, Missouri St., Iona, Princeton, Oakland, UNC WIlmington, Iowa, Seton Hall, etc.

 

The Zips are in that group -- usually within the top 100 but rarely within the top 75.  This means that they're better than ~200 schools, about equal with ~75, and significantly below another 75.

 

The MAC has slipped so much in the past decade that, for Akron to achieve consistent NCAA tournament bids and wins, it must absolutely dominate the conference ... I mean like Louisville in the Metro during the late 70s/early 80s, Houston in the SWC in the early 80s, Butler in the Horizon, and Gonzaga in the WCC for the past 25 years.

 

A 0.723 tournament winning percentage in a Power 5 conference is something to write home about.  The same percentage in the MAC means you're the tallest dwarf ... you beat the other dwarfs almost 3 out of 4 times.  It doesn't mean that you are prepared to compete with the big boys.

 

What I want to see is a team that's ready to jump from Top 100 to Top 50, regardless of whether the rest of its league makes overall improvement.  Can that be done at a school that tries to play football at a (nominally) high level?  I don't know.  Maybe Akron can be the first ...

I hope the Zips do figure it out and make the leap to the top 50. It will take excellent coaching, more financial resources and a committed administration and fanbase. Those things don't happen overnight, but they can happen over time (many years). I hope to see it. Nice post.

[Blue & Gold]

18 minutes ago, GJGood said:

I do want him to feel some pressure to keep the 21-win streak going. We play 18 MAC regular season games and then would need to win three in Cleveland. You can go 21-0 playing just MAC schools and I'd love to see that happen.

Good point. 

[72 Roo]

I would not beat yourself up for going to other suites to eat Zippy cookies. the way I look at it is you are keeping those cookies from falling in enemy hands who may be prowling our suites, press box and reception areas. That's your story and you should stick to it. It's very unselfish of you. Pardon me,  in the face of such heroics I'm ready to cry. 

[wadszip]

45 minutes ago, mes102 said:

Apparently this started at 6:15. I will post the podcast of it when it gets posted within the next couple hours.

As for the article about grading college basketball's biggest hires, I posted it because we were on it and Duquesne wasn't even though other A-10 schools like UMass, Dayton, and VCU were on it. I thought that was interesting.

 

Definitely ver interesting. On one hand, you could say Akron was on the list because KD made the Zips "marquee." On the other hand, if that was the case, then Duquesne (especially since other A-10 schools were judged) should've been A+ ... Instead, not even mentioned, when three other schools in that league who changed coaches were.

 

What I take from that is kind of in the middle. Akron is a good job due to KDs foundation and its recruiting area (but I don't think even anybody here would try to pass it off as "marquee") and KD, while a good coach, did indeed leave to go to a dead-end job ... even if it meant a negligible pay raise.

 

I don't want this taken as a shot at KD ... I've flat out said I wish he would've retired at Akron and would've fine if that happened, even if the next 7 years were "only" like the first 13. But I do think KD's decision may really have been the shot in the arm the school needed to take things to the next level. While KD did a great job of making this a program with a very high floor, he was set in his ways and though reluctantly adjusted later on, it limited the ceiling. 

 

Now, we may have a guy, who even if the floor is lowered a bit because of the unknown (and the weak 34-30 argument detractors will argue), is somebody who will raise the ceiling of this program because: 1. It is established and 2. He is a guy who has a long track record of recruiting talent and is at a place where he is going to be tripping over talent within 50 miles of campus. 

 

I'll admit if I'm wrong, but I think Groce will do (even if he bolts after three years) what most of us were hoping KD would do ... in capitalizing on what was in place and potentially taking the program to a VCU/Wichita/Butler type status (all programs who had a guy come in and lay the foundation, then hire another guy to build on it to the point where it is still an elite job even after that second coach (third in VCU's case) leaves.

 

Maybe we were hoping to be Gonzaga and KD to be our Mark Few, but that isn't (and never was) going to happen, so lets embrace this opportunity.

Edited April 7, 2017 by wadszip

[kreed5120]

I listened to the Groce interview on the Tay and J Show. Nothing that we haven't heard already.

[mes102]

Groce interview with Illinois radio station starting at 19:50 into the podcast

[Let'sGoZips94]

2 hours ago, ZachTheZip said:

 

Woah, woah, who's talking about sustaining that level? Wasn't everyone in this thread just saying that they'd be OK with losing more games if it meant a tournament run? You don't sustain a high level by losing more games in order to luck into a tournament win or two once in a while.

Akron won the MAC Tournament 3 times, with only 1 of those 3 wins coming as the 1 seed. So what did our "high level" of winning more games get us? 1 MAC tourney title? 

[mes102]

 

[NWAkron]

Maybe it comes down to something as simple as:  Keith Dambrot came along when the program really needed him.  I think John Groce is doing the same.  To reach the next level the program needs him. Keith brought us three wonderful MAC championships and those came with a lot of heartbreak on the side. 

 

Certainly, all the other MAC teams (Toledo or BG for example) would have loved those wins and those final appearances.  But we aren't those schools and comparing our experiences to theirs is a bit of a false equivalence rather like comparing the basketball team to the football team.  Just because they would like our level of success doesn't mean our program has to be satisfied with it.

 

KD isn't "dead" to me.  I don't know the man.  But I thank him for leaving and allowing us to get John Groce.  And over the last couple days I had the pleasure of actually meeting our new coach and his family.  I never had the opportunity with the other coaches.   They appeared to be high quality people (although, I realize they have experience in the public eye.)  But Groce's mom is the the real basketball aficionado.    She likes old-style basketball arenas like the JAR.

 

We are going to have anticipation we never had before come November.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2017 by NWAkron

[mes102]

14 minutes ago, NWAkron said:

Maybe it comes down to something as simple as:  Keith Dambrot came along when the program really needed him.  I think John Groce is doing the same.  To reach the next level the program needs him. Keith brought us three wonderful MAC championships and those came with a lot of heartbreak on the side. 

 

Certainly, all the other MAC teams (Toledo or BG for example) would have loved those wins and those final appearances.  But we aren't those schools and comparing our experiences to theirs is a bit of a false equivalence rather like comparing the basketball team to the football team.  Just because they would like our level of success doesn't mean our program has to be satisfied with it.

 

KD isn't "dead" to me.  I don't know the man.  But I thank him for leaving and allowing us to get John Groce.  And over the last couple days I had the pleasure of actually meeting our new coach and his family.  I never had the opportunity with the other coaches.   They appeared to be high quality people (although, I realize they have experience in the public eye.)  But Groce's mom is the the real basketball aficionado.    She likes old-style basketball arenas like the JAR.

 

We are going to have anticipation we never had before come November.

 

 

 

 

Well said. Some of the things you said is what I tried to say, but didn't do it as well as you.

As for meeting Coach Groce, I hope that maybe the university could attempt to have a couple more of these meet-and-greets with Coach Groce? Maybe in the student union before a football or soccer game? Maybe a student only event as well?

What made Caleb Porter so likeable and student attendance was amazing, was the approachability of Porter to the students and how he tried relating to them. I think Groce can and will do that.

But seriously, if anyone that works at the university reads this, maybe have a meet-and-greet with Coach Groce in the Fall or even later in this Spring and advertise it for a month or so in advance. That way some of us that couldn't make it last night, may have a chance to work our schedules around to personally support Coach Groce, his family, and the program.

 

[wadszip]

41 minutes ago, NWAkron said:

Maybe it comes down to something as simple as:  Keith Dambrot came along when the program really needed him.  I think John Groce is doing the same.  To reach the next level the program needs him. Keith brought us three wonderful MAC championships and those came with a lot of heartbreak on the side. 

 

Certainly, all the other MAC teams (Toledo or BG for example) would have loved those wins and those final appearances.  But we aren't those schools and comparing our experiences to theirs is a bit of a false equivalence rather like comparing the basketball team to the football team.  Just because they would like our level of success doesn't mean our program has to be satisfied with it.

 

KD isn't "dead" to me.  I don't know the man.  But I thank him for leaving and allowing us to get John Groce.  And over the last couple days I had the pleasure of actually meeting our new coach and his family.  I never had the opportunity with the other coaches.   They appeared to be high quality people (although, I realize they have experience in the public eye.)  But Groce's mom is the the real basketball aficionado.    She likes old-style basketball arenas like the JAR.

 

We are going to have anticipation we never had before come November.

 

 

 

 

I definitely agree with the first two graphs. I agree with most of the third graph, but can't say I will "thank" KD for leaving, though I do acknowledge it may have been for the best. Though 

 

As for the last sentence, I hope that isn't the case. Personally, I saw this as an 18 or so win team even with KD back (and that is without potentially losing Antino ... though I said that not knowing what kind of leader it appears Jimond Ivey is becoming). Anyway, this team was in for major philosophy shift even under KD. Now, they have to replace Big Dog/Kwan/Antino??? and learn a new system. 

 

I'm still going to anticipate this being a winning team, but it will hardly be anticipation like never before. The main thing I want to see is if this team is making progress and is playing better at the end of league season than it did in the beginning. There will be growing pains next year. We knew that was going to happen before this coaching change even came about.

Edited April 8, 2017 by wadszip

[Zipgrad01]

1 hour ago, NWAkron said:

Maybe it comes down to something as simple as:  Keith Dambrot came along when the program really needed him.  I think John Groce is doing the same.  To reach the next level the program needs him. Keith brought us three wonderful MAC championships and those came with a lot of heartbreak on the side. 

 

Certainly, all the other MAC teams (Toledo or BG for example) would have loved those wins and those final appearances.  But we aren't those schools and comparing our experiences to theirs is a bit of a false equivalence rather like comparing the basketball team to the football team.  Just because they would like our level of success doesn't mean our program has to be satisfied with it.

 

KD isn't "dead" to me.  I don't know the man.  But I thank him for leaving and allowing us to get John Groce.  And over the last couple days I had the pleasure of actually meeting our new coach and his family.  I never had the opportunity with the other coaches.   They appeared to be high quality people (although, I realize they have experience in the public eye.)  But Groce's mom is the the real basketball aficionado.    She likes old-style basketball arenas like the JAR.

 

We are going to have anticipation we never had before come November.

 

 

 

 

When all the facts come out and you see how badly Dambrot wanted out of here, maybe you will see why I am so callous about his leaving. I have never had anything personal against the guy, but the way he left and the way he treated the people closest to the program just rubs me wrong. 

[Blue & Gold]

GT's written a nice article addressing Zach's (and one other's?) concerns over a few of Coach Groce's players' off-court issues.

[Zip_ME87]

2 hours ago, Blue & Gold said:

GT's written a nice article addressing Zach's (and one other's?) concerns over a few of Coach Groce's players' off-court issues.

 

I'm glad to see the concern addressed openly, which is all i wanted. I don't have a problem with taking chances on guys, and I know that there are going to be some issues when they do. Best to be up front about it and how it will be handled.

[Hilltopper]

 

[clarkwgriswold]

11 hours ago, Zipgrad01 said:

When all the facts come out and you see how badly Dambrot wanted out of here, maybe you will see why I am so callous about his leaving. I have never had anything personal against the guy, but the way he left and the way he treated the people closest to the program just rubs me wrong. 

Why the secrecy? 

[skip-zip]

15 hours ago, mes102 said:

As for the article about grading college basketball's biggest hires, I posted it because we were on it and Duquesne wasn't even though other A-10 schools like UMass, Dayton, and VCU were on it. I thought that was interesting.

 

Forget about the damn conferences.  Akron is a relevant college basketball program right now, and Duquesne sucks. 

[OU Dude]

9 hours ago, Hilltopper said:

 

 

"My grandmother in her 70s cut harder than some of you guys." - John Groce to a group of 10yr olds. lmao.

[K92]

9 hours ago, clarkwgriswold said:

Why the secrecy? 

Because you just can't come on here and post a bunch of hearsay.  If I heard some things unbecoming to KD from a source who certainly had the access to know and that I trust not to be spreading lies, I would believe them and I might drop a hint or two but I wouldn't come on here and spill the beans about it.  That is a sure fire way for that person in the know never to tell you any juicy little tidbits ever again.

 

But that's just me.

Edited April 8, 2017 by K92

[Zipgrad01]

5 minutes ago, K92 said:

Because you just can't come on here and post a bunch of hearsay.  If I heard some things unbecoming to KD from a source who certainly had the access to know and that I trust not to be spreading lies, I would believe them and I might drop a hint or two but I wouldn't come on here and spill the beans about it.  That is a sure fire way for that person in the know never to tell you any juicy little tidbits ever again.

 

But that's just me.

Ding ding ding... we have a winner 

[UAZip0510]

20 hours ago, Zipgrad01 said:

When all the facts come out and you see how badly Dambrot wanted out of here, maybe you will see why I am so callous about his leaving. I have never had anything personal against the guy, but the way he left and the way he treated the people closest to the program just rubs me wrong. 

 

Larry, is that you?