What is the solution and is it fixable?

[1981 grad]

Griswold, Great question that deserves its own thread.  What else do diehard Akron fans have to do until Thursday?

 

I am not sure this is fixable because there is just a lack of offensive talent on this team after you get past Freeman in the paint, Ali backing down his defender and shooting over him, and Tribble with his floater attacking the basket and hitting the 3 pointer over 40%.  If Hunter is on with his 3 point shot, great.  If not, we are in trouble because he struggles inside the paint to score and has not been very physical and at times and looks slow on offense and defense.

 

First solution:  Play Dawson less.  Groce loves his defense but he cost us the game at Eastern by not boxing out.  He also did not box out in the Kent game.  But most importantly, he gives us nothing offensively.  He does not attack the basket and is a poor 3 point shooter.   I think he may have 1 or 2 games in double digits.  Groce loves tough physical players.  Terrible stat on physicallity:  28 games, 11 starts, 400 minutes played and 2 foul shot attempts.  (He played much better before injury last year)  

 

Second solution:  Take Nate out of the starting lineup.  He has struggled since coming back.  Missed a wide open 3 last night and missed a couple of reverse layups the last 2 games.  Last night his reverse layup went over the backboard.  Has had some really bad turnovers since coming back.  (He played much better before injury this year)

 

Third solution:  Realize that you struck out in the transfer portal this year.  I think every Zip fan would agree that Thornton and Scott were misses more than hits.  Scott finally scored in double figures last night.  But almost all of his points came in the last 2 minutes when the Zips were out of it.  None of these guys has shown any ability to break down defenses during MAC play and attack the basket or have consistent scoring ability from the 3 point line.  (I stand corrected that Prather is a red shirt frosh so has room to grow and improve)

 

Fourth solution:  Start Tavari and see if he can add to the offense.  Desperate times call for desperate measures.  He has had 4 games where he has scored in double figures averaging less than 20 minutes.  Three of the games were on the road.  Statistically he is our best 3 point shooter.  He is our quickest guard and can break down defenses and is not afraid to attack the basket.  Even if he misses he draws Freeman's man and gives Freeman an offensive rebound.  I know his defense allegedly sucks but his defense cannot be any worse than what we saw last night in the 2nd half when he was not on the floor.  Look forward to hearing from other Zip fans.  Go Zips!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

    

Edited March 10 by 1981 grad

[Westie]

My biggest worry is they are in their own heads now. They need to find their mojo and that will only come if they play well and win Thursday. 
 

They know teams are gonna pack it in on D because of the shooting problems. I like Ali elbow to elbow and let him get inside the zone that they know they’re gonna see. He can drive, shoot, drop it down to Freeman or kick it and hope some 3s go in. 

 

But it’s not rocket science, it comes down to making shots. They’re gonna have to shoot at a higher % than we’ve seen recently. It’s the only way Freeman and Ali will have any room to operate. 
 

The recent struggles don’t change the fact that the MAC stinks. OU is hot but they’re still mediocre at best. Toledo is good but they haven’t won this tourney since Reagan’s first term. 
 

Go Zips!

[GP1]

53 minutes ago, 1981 grad said:

What else do diehard Akron fans have to do until Thursday

Pound beers until the Zips win the championship next weekend?

[Zippy87]

I'd start Tavari but have him play off-ball, trying to limit his turnovers. Teams are going to double and triple Freeman and the only way that changes is if you make them pay for it outside. Small sample size, but Tavari is shooting 49% from deep this season (21-43). How many open looks have guards missed over this bad stretch? I trust Tavari to hit open shots more than I do the others.  The Miami game is the time to do it, too. They're bad offensively, so less concern about TJ's defense in that matchup. We know what Thornton and Scott are. We don't fully know what Tavari can be. 

 

Freeman has to be wise on defense. I LOVE his aggressiveness, but he needs to remember that sometimes it's better to trade a basket than commit a foul. His 4th foul yesterday was questionable, but his 5th was obvious and unwise. We're arguably a bad, Buffalo-level team when he's not out there. 

 

We need Ali to be aggressive, but smart. Sometimes his emotions can carry he and his teammates, other times it can kill us. 

 

Truthfully, next week will come down to the role players. I dont think Freeman, Tribble, or Ali will go down without a fight. But they can't do it alone.

 

One thing I do want to mention - Prather wasn't a transfer, and I think he's come on nicely. He won't be a star by any means, but I think he'll be a solid contributor moving forward.

 

 

[kreed5120]

I feel you guys are overlooking the fundamental problems of this team. We didn't lose to WMU and EMU because of poor shooting. We shot over 50% from the field and 41% from 3 against WMU. We shot 48% against EMU. Those are percentage you can and should win with.

 

We're losing because of lack of effort and fundamentals. Outside of Freeman, nobody is boxing out and fighting for 50/50 balls. We're losing because We're giving up too many second chance points. We need to play better defense and secure rebounds once we force a miss. Giving more minutes to players that don't give up their body to make plays at the defensive end won't fix anything.

Edited March 9 by kreed5120

[Reslife4Life]

I don’t think the starting lineup will change, other than maybe swapping Dawson for Nate. There isn’t anything that needs “changing” for the team, gotta rebound better and not have too many turnovers. This team is talented, we lost the last 2 more so because of execution 

[clarkwgriswold]

They're getting out-physicaled at every turn.  I'm not sure that's fixable.

 

They are also reaallllllly predictable and you see defenses prepared for things like Freeman in the post, Ali backing people down and Tribble penetrating into the lane, Dawson never penetrating....

[GP1]

Do what you do best and get better at it. 

[Captain Kangaroo]

2 hours ago, GP1 said:

Pound beers until the Zips win the championship next weekend?

Done, and done. 🍺🍺🍺

[ZippyRulz]

10 hours ago, GP1 said:

Pound beers until the Zips win the championship next weekend?

 

Take a drink for each 3-pointer we make. I've got my Wild Turkey ready...

 

[Captain Kangaroo]

5 hours ago, ZippyRulz said:

Take a drink for each 3-pointer we make. I've got my Wild Turkey ready...

You only need one of those tiny airplane bottles.

[1981 grad]

34 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

You only need one of those tiny airplane bottles.

Maybe we should take a drink for each one we miss to numb the pain.

[clarkwgriswold]

The defense seemed to drop off in the second half.  The team average points surrendered on the season was 66.2.  Since Madison, they gave up 71.8 ppg. 

[1981 grad]

56 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

The defense seemed to drop off in the second half.  The team average points surrendered on the season was 66.2.  Since Madison, they gave up 71.8 ppg. 

The only problem I noticed on defense on Friday is that Hunter looked very slow especially when Freeman was out with foul trouble and Ali tried to do too much and came off his man to help on defense that led to other problems.  We just do not seem to be especially quick on team defense.

[Illini Zip]

I rewatched it and thought we played plenty physical from the jump. Western has big bodies that can move people underneath. We could use a road-grader type big too. As physical as that game was Freeman should never have fouled out. But that’s life on the road. 

[clarkwgriswold]

2 hours ago, 1981 grad said:

The only problem I noticed on defense on Friday is that Hunter looked very slow especially when Freeman was out with foul trouble and Ali tried to do too much and came off his man to help on defense that led to other problems.  We just do not seem to be especially quick on team defense.

To Sammy's credit, I don't think it's an effort thing. He's usually on a shorter faster guy when Enrique is in the game and he just doesn't have the lateral quickness to stay with them. When Enrique is out, he's usually matched up with a bigger bodied post player that pushes him around.

[Let'sGoZips94]

3 hours ago, clarkwgriswold said:

The defense seemed to drop off in the second half.  The team average points surrendered on the season was 66.2.  Since Madison, they gave up 71.8 ppg. 

 

This. 

 

The PPG for us haven't been nearly as bad as the PPG against us. Scoring 70 doesn't get you anywhere if you give up 71+. The defense is the #1 thing that needs to lock back in. 

[1981 grad]

On 3/9/2024 at 3:32 PM, 1981 grad said:

Griswold, Great question that deserves its own thread.  What else do diehard Akron fans have to do until Thursday?

 

I am not sure this is fixable because there is just a lack of offensive talent on this team after you get past Freeman in the paint, Ali backing down his defender and shooting over him, and Tribble with his floater attacking the basket and hitting the 3 pointer over 40%.  If Hunter is on with his 3 point shot, great.  If not, we are in trouble because he struggles inside the paint to score and has not been very physical and at times and looks slow on offense and defense.

 

First solution:  Play Dawson less.  Groce loves his defense but he cost us the game at Eastern by not boxing out.  He also did not box out in the Kent game.  But most importantly, he gives us nothing offensively.  He does not attack the basket and is a poor 3 point shooter.   I think he may have 1 or 2 games in double digits.  Groce loves tough physical players.  Terrible stat on physicallity:  28 games, 11 starts, 400 minutes played and 2 foul shot attempts.  (He played much better before injury last year)  

 

Second solution:  Take Nate out of the starting lineup.  He has struggled since coming back.  Missed a wide open 3 last night and missed a couple of reverse layups the last 2 games.  Last night his reverse layup went over the backboard.  Has had some really bad turnovers since coming back.  (He played much better before injury this year)

 

Third solution:  Realize that you struck out in the transfer portal this year.  I think every Zip fan would agree that Thornton and Scott were misses more than hits.  Scott finally scored in double figures last night.  But almost all of his points came in the last 2 minutes when the Zips were out of it.  None of these guys has shown any ability to break down defenses during MAC play and attack the basket or have consistent scoring ability from the 3 point line.  (I stand corrected that Prather is a red shirt frosh so has room to grow and improve)

 

Fourth solution:  Start Tavari and see if he can add to the offense.  Desperate times call for desperate measures.  He has had 4 games where he has scored in double figures averaging less than 20 minutes.  Three of the games were on the road.  Statistically he is our best 3 point shooter.  He is our quickest guard and can break down defenses and is not afraid to attack the basket.  Even if he misses he draws Freeman's man and gives Freeman an offensive rebound.  I know his defense allegedly sucks but his defense cannot be any worse than what we saw last night in the 2nd half when he was not on the floor.  Look forward to hearing from other Zip fans.  Go Zips!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

    

I really think Tavari can add to this team if Groce would put him in the game.  Groce put him in the game at the 9:56 of the first half when we were down 9.  During his time in the game he scored 6 points and had a steal.  He took him out at the 7:18 mark and we were down 3.  After a Thornton turnover and missed layup, he put Tavari back into the game at 5:01 and we were down 4.  He came out of the game at 1:15 and we were up 4.  That is a plus 13 when Tavari was in the game in the first half.  I thought I would see more Tavari in the 2nd half but he did not get into the game until 7 minutes left in the game.  I just do not understand what Groce is thinking.  In the 2nd half Tavari had a couple nice passes to Freeman.  He clearly outplays Thornton and Scott but is still the last guard off the bench.  He scored 6 points in 10 minutes.  Meanwhile, I have to watch Dawson shoot 3 balls and go 0 for 3 again.  We struggle shooting the 3 and the best 3 ball shooter sits the bench.  I am hoping Tavari will see more action against Ohio but I have my doubts.

[Captain Kangaroo]

8 hours ago, 1981 grad said:

I really think Tavari can add to this team if Groce would put him in the game.  Groce put him in the game at the 9:56 of the first half when we were down 9.  During his time in the game he scored 6 points and had a steal.  He took him out at the 7:18 mark and we were down 3.  After a Thornton turnover and missed layup, he put Tavari back into the game at 5:01 and we were down 4.  He came out of the game at 1:15 and we were up 4.  That is a plus 13 when Tavari was in the game in the first half.  I thought I would see more Tavari in the 2nd half but he did not get into the game until 7 minutes left in the game.  I just do not understand what Groce is thinking.  In the 2nd half Tavari had a couple nice passes to Freeman.  He clearly outplays Thornton and Scott but is still the last guard off the bench.  He scored 6 points in 10 minutes.  Meanwhile, I have to watch Dawson shoot 3 balls and go 0 for 3 again.  We struggle shooting the 3 and the best 3 ball shooter sits the bench.  I am hoping Tavari will see more action against Ohio but I have my doubts.

I’m with you.

[Illini Zip]

Groce has said that none of these guys have separated themselves through the course of the year. Maybe Tavari is ready to take that step. I sure hope so, no better time. But Groce has a theory that Seniors die hard. Thornton knows his next loss means the end of his career. Also, if Groce wants players to transfer to Akron he needs to give them every opportunity to succeed. And in this case, Thornton could possibly lead to landing Coit. Just wishful speculation. But good analysis @1981 grad. I will add that Tavari might have the best +/- statistic on the team. I’m a fan.

 

Edit: Sincere Carry’s name came up on another thread. It got me thinking which is always dangerous. If I remember hearing correctly we had a shot at getting Carry. If that would have happened I am confident Carry would not have been such a head-case under Groce. Because Groce truly believes the student, person, player culture stuff and he would have limited Carry’s playing time until certain matters were addressed. I say this because Tavari’s playing time could be affected by his grades or a character issue. We have no idea what is taking place behind the scenes. Groce is a big “teamism” guy. Another Grocism is a player needs to fit in (with the team) before he can stand out. I have no idea, just thinking out loud.

Edited March 15 by Illini Zip

[1981 grad]

23 hours ago, 1981 grad said:

I really think Tavari can add to this team if Groce would put him in the game.  Groce put him in the game at the 9:56 of the first half when we were down 9.  During his time in the game he scored 6 points and had a steal.  He took him out at the 7:18 mark and we were down 3.  After a Thornton turnover and missed layup, he put Tavari back into the game at 5:01 and we were down 4.  He came out of the game at 1:15 and we were up 4.  That is a plus 13 when Tavari was in the game in the first half.  I thought I would see more Tavari in the 2nd half but he did not get into the game until 7 minutes left in the game.  I just do not understand what Groce is thinking.  In the 2nd half Tavari had a couple nice passes to Freeman.  He clearly outplays Thornton and Scott but is still the last guard off the bench.  He scored 6 points in 10 minutes.  Meanwhile, I have to watch Dawson shoot 3 balls and go 0 for 3 again.  We struggle shooting the 3 and the best 3 ball shooter sits the bench.  I am hoping Tavari will see more action against Ohio but I have my doubts.

At 14:04 Groce put in Tavari and we were down by 9.  He played him the rest of the game except when he put Nate him for 20 seconds who immediately fouled and cost us 2 points on free throws.  We won by 3 so Tavari was a plus 14 during the last 14:04.  He had some great assists to Freeman and had some drives but was unable to finish and missed his one three pointer.  Dawson did his usual 0 from 4 from 3 point line.  I watched him in practice and he could not miss.  Obviously it is a mental thing.  I said it once and I will say it again, Groce need to play Tavari!!!!!!!!    I think he should start or be the first sub.  At least Groce had the good sense to keep him in the game until he subbed him for Nate and it almost cost us the game although I understand he did it for defense.

[Blue & Gold]

6 minutes ago, 1981 grad said:

At 14:04 Groce put in Tavari and we were down by 9.  He played him the rest of the game except when he put Nate him for 20 seconds who immediately fouled and cost us 2 points on free throws.  We won by 3 so Tavari was a plus 14 during the last 14:04.  He had some great assists to Freeman and had some drives but was unable to finish and missed his one three pointer.  Dawson did his usual 0 from 4 from 3 point line.  I watched him in practice and he could not miss.  Obviously it is a mental thing.  I said it once and I will say it again, Groce need to play Tavari!!!!!!!!    I think he should start or be the first sub.  At least Groce had the good sense to keep him in the game until he subbed him for Nate and it almost cost us the game although I understand he did it for defense.

YES!!! Tavari should be the first guard off the bench & should get AT LEAST 20 minutes/game.

[Captain Kangaroo]

1 hour ago, 1981 grad said:

Dawson did his usual 0 from 4 from 3 point line.  I watched him in practice and he could not miss.  Obviously it is a mental thing.

To be fair, he did hit the rim on a couple.

 

Great in warm ups…hit 7 of 11 against Heidelberg…but other than that it’s been a maddening season for him.

[1981 grad]

26 minutes ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

To be fair, he did hit the rim on a couple.

 

Great in warm ups…hit 7 of 11 against Heidelberg…but other than that it’s been a maddening season for him.

My apologies, captain, much better than Thornton who took one wide open 3 and did not hit the rim.  And yes, Scott had a wide open breakaway but missed the layup when he slowed up and let the defender catch him and poke the ball away.  Scott might be 1 for 10 in layups.  That is not easy.  Dawson played 10 minutes on Thursday went 0 for 3, all 3 pointers, played 12 minutes against Ohio, went 0 for 4, all 3 pointers.  I expect Groce will play him 15 minutes tomorrow.  (LOL?)

Edited March 16 by 1981 grad