RoyalBlu Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 1 hour ago, kreed5120 said: This is my thought as well. Last years team had a lot more hype than this years team and Groce had no problem compiling a top 50 (per KenPom) OOC schedule. In the past if we wanted games against P5 or top echelon mid-majors we could find them. Groce probably just wants a lighter OOC schedule as he wants to give the team time to gel since it's mostly a completely new roster. You make my point. Yes, Akron's non-con SOS per last years KenPom was 45. But because the MAC was so weak, and the Zips lost to all but one of the Mid-Major teams it faced in the Top 100, that led to a No. 122 rank in KenPom a 206 SOS overall, and another low NCAA Tournament seed after winning MAC Tournament. Understand, the mid-major Top 100 KenPom teams Akron lost to also mostly had poor overall SOS by playing in their respective conferences. Drake 113, James Madison 261, St. Bonaventure 309. If you're going to play these teams - and you should - you have to beat them to get any value out of the game. Using last year's KenPom, here is what Toledo and Kent can expect to get from playing Houston No. 2/23 SOS; Purdue 3/2 SOS, Alabama 14/1 SOS, Auburn 4/60 SOS. Losing to those teams will greatly add to their overall SOS as well as their non-con SOS. And should either get a 'quality loss' (which I believe is 5 points or less) or heaven forbid an upset, a quality MAC season (w/no sub 200 losses) and strong MAC Tournament run should make them a viable 'bubble team.' Yes, lots of ifs and buts .... but still the best way to get into the post season conversation. Playing Utah State, Drake, James Madison, Bradley, UNLV, St. Bonaventure is admirable in and of itself. No question. But first you need to win at least half of those games (Zips won 1) to make your overall record stand up and even have a post season prayer, short of winning the MAC Tournament. I believe Akron has St. Mary's on the schedule this year, a No. 20 KenPom team ... but with a 103 overall SOS, even in a conference with Gonzaga. A game Akron could conceivably win ... but, will a loss really help the Zips in the metrics. Playing a few quality power conference teams bulks up your non-con and overall SOS, even with a loss, which is more valuable as the MAC overall gets weaker and weaker after the traditional top 4 (Akron, Ohio, Toledo, Kent). Whew!!! Maybe now I'm done. Still pick Zips to win the MAC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Let'sGoZips94 Posted August 11 Report Share Posted August 11 8 hours ago, zippy5 said: I find that very hard to believe. The first school that I could think of in a similar situation and even better as a program is JMU. They're playing at Wake 12/17. Groce doesn't want to schedule a road P5 game, and while it's disappointing as a fan, he feels it's best for this team. And he knows better than I do Wake probably see that as an easier win with an opportunity to bump attendance for a non P6 game. Regional school coming off a year with a lot of national hype in basketball & football but... New coach and entirely new roster. Schools risk everything playing Akron with little reward. Personally, I'm going to believe Bud Wentz. No reason not to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Let'sGoZips94 Posted August 11 Report Share Posted August 11 8 hours ago, zippy5 said: I find that very hard to believe. The first school that I could think of in a similar situation and even better as a program is JMU. They're playing at Wake 12/17. Groce doesn't want to schedule a road P5 game, and while it's disappointing as a fan, he feels it's best for this team. And he knows better than I do Wake probably sees that as an easier win with an opportunity to bump attendance for a non P6 game. Regional school coming off a year with a lot of national hype in basketball & football but... New coach and entirely new roster. Schools risk everything playing Akron with little reward. Personally, I'm going to believe Bud Wentz. No reason not to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreed5120 Posted August 11 Report Share Posted August 11 3 hours ago, RoyalBlu said: You make my point. Yes, Akron's non-con SOS per last years KenPom was 45. But because the MAC was so weak, and the Zips lost to all but one of the Mid-Major teams it faced in the Top 100, that led to a No. 122 rank in KenPom a 206 SOS overall, and another low NCAA Tournament seed after winning MAC Tournament. Understand, the mid-major Top 100 KenPom teams Akron lost to also mostly had poor overall SOS by playing in their respective conferences. Drake 113, James Madison 261, St. Bonaventure 309. If you're going to play these teams - and you should - you have to beat them to get any value out of the game. Using last year's KenPom, here is what Toledo and Kent can expect to get from playing Houston No. 2/23 SOS; Purdue 3/2 SOS, Alabama 14/1 SOS, Auburn 4/60 SOS. Losing to those teams will greatly add to their overall SOS as well as their non-con SOS. And should either get a 'quality loss' (which I believe is 5 points or less) or heaven forbid an upset, a quality MAC season (w/no sub 200 losses) and strong MAC Tournament run should make them a viable 'bubble team.' Yes, lots of ifs and buts .... but still the best way to get into the post season conversation. Playing Utah State, Drake, James Madison, Bradley, UNLV, St. Bonaventure is admirable in and of itself. No question. But first you need to win at least half of those games (Zips won 1) to make your overall record stand up and even have a post season prayer, short of winning the MAC Tournament. I believe Akron has St. Mary's on the schedule this year, a No. 20 KenPom team ... but with a 103 overall SOS, even in a conference with Gonzaga. A game Akron could conceivably win ... but, will a loss really help the Zips in the metrics. Playing a few quality power conference teams bulks up your non-con and overall SOS, even with a loss, which is more valuable as the MAC overall gets weaker and weaker after the traditional top 4 (Akron, Ohio, Toledo, Kent). Whew!!! Maybe now I'm done. Still pick Zips to win the MAC. The MAC is too horrendous to even think about at-large chances. Despite our OOC SOS being #45, our overall SOS finished at #206. Even if we won 2-3 of those Kenpom top 100 games, we weren't going to be close to sniffing an at-large, nor should we. I think you might be confused. I'm not saying we shouldn't have scheduled more challenging OOC games. I'm saying Groce likely didn't schedule them because he cares more about using the early part of the season to develop chemistry and build continuity. I'm fairly indifferent as with how bad the MAC is, the only realistic path to the big dance is winning the MAC Tournament. The MAC needs to return to being a top 10-12 conference before an at-large becomes remotely realistic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted August 11 Report Share Posted August 11 (edited) We've never won any of these road P5 games (actually one at Miss St iirc), you guys act like we're Gonzaga. These teams aren't scared of hosting Akron. In 2023: Kent played at Oregon Cornell played at Syracuse Chattanooga and NM State played at Louisville Toledo played at WVU Wright State and Morehead St played at Indiana Before last year, we've played at Pitt, OSU, Louisville, WVU, Nevada, Dayton, Miss St, South Carolina etc.. We didn't become some top ten team since then I don't think. These game are out there, Groce doesn't want to schedule them. And that's fine, but these blue bloods aren't scared of us. Edited August 11 by zippy5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilltopper Posted August 11 Report Share Posted August 11 Schedule should be released tomorrow. As usual, the MAC will be doing us no favors in the conference schedule. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyalBlu Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 50 minutes ago, Hilltopper said: Schedule should be released tomorrow. As usual, the MAC will be doing us no favors in the conference schedule. By that I guess you mean the Zips will have to play Ohio, Toledo, Kent, Miami, BG, CMU twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilltopper Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 12 hours ago, RoyalBlu said: By that I guess you mean the Zips will have to play Ohio, Toledo, Kent, Miami, BG, CMU twice. Close to that. Also some difficult travel situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkwgriswold Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 I think our passion for Zips basketball may be best measured by the fact that we're discussing and debating the schedule even before it has been released! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 11 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said: I think our passion for Zips basketball may be best measured by the fact that we're discussing and debating the schedule even before it has been released! This is how you know it's almost Akron football season 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy5 Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilltopper Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyolcrowe Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 Meh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyolcrowe Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 Just now, dirtyolcrowe said: Meh Lord. You can’t even get an Ivy League school to come to Akron!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue & Gold Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 Back-to-back-to-back home games on November 22, 23, and 24. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyalBlu Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 13 minutes ago, Blue & Gold said: Back-to-back-to-back home games on November 22, 23, and 24. If I said this was a Keith Dambrot schedule would anybody argue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkwgriswold Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 Don't love it, don't hate it. Even if I hated it I would still be going to games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Let'sGoZips94 Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 Love that schedule. St. Mary's, Princeton, and Yale are all who we strive to be in March. Everything else is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreed5120 Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 35 minutes ago, Blue & Gold said: Back-to-back-to-back home games on November 22, 23, and 24. It's because we're hosting a MTE 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kreed5120 Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 1 hour ago, dirtyolcrowe said: Lord. You can’t even get an Ivy League school to come to Akron!!!! To be fair, I'm guessing that's a home and home with Princeton so I'm operating under the assumption they will play at the JAR next season. Overall, there is a lot with the schedule that you can criticize. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csims0917 Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 With how inexperienced this team is together I’m really happy with this schedule 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZipsFan31 Posted August 13 Report Share Posted August 13 As a paying fan, I am disappointed with the pace and names of the teams. It is bunched up with the tournament 😔 but I go to games to watch our team play and see how the guys develop. hope we get quality games and not blowouts. Better clear your schedule the week before thanksgiving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelegazna Posted August 13 Author Report Share Posted August 13 As I said elsewhere, no shade to anyone involved in scheduling, I'm sure it's hard, a ton is out of your hands, cancellations happen, and (although this is being debated), I suspect that a lot of teams see little upside to scheduling Akron, and turn us down. But in some respects, I feel like this is the worst OOC I've seen from the Zips in my 35-or-so years of fandom. We didn't get a single P5 school; I wonder when is the last time that happened? I personally really want these games, we've come close against teams like UNC and Louisville (when they were still good) and beaten plenty of P5 also-rans. I think these are good for confidence and visibility. Now, you can argue that in the past we've scheduled a couple P5s but also had too many Chicago States otherwise, and were therefore worse schedules. That's fair. It does seem clear that Groce is prioritizing playing teams "at our level," so to speak. On this front, I think they did an okay-ish job but not as good as last year. No conference basement-dwellers, but also few that really challenged for conference titles last year; only St. Mary's and the two Ivy schools. Like last year at UNLV, we are going out west for ONE game before coming back. Can that be good economically? Can we really not couple that anyone else? Can we not get a home-and-home against anyone out West to give us more bang for our travel buck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1981 grad Posted August 13 Report Share Posted August 13 Ohio Weslyan and Suni Brockport? I have seen enough of these games to know that you do not develop a team playing games against much weaker competition. Northern Kentucky is probably the best home game. As a season ticket holder, tough to get excited about anything on this schedule. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpsjugglerdude Posted August 13 Report Share Posted August 13 14 hours ago, mrelegazna said: We didn't get a single P5 school; I wonder when is the last time that happened? I personally really want these games, we've come close against teams like UNC and Louisville (when they were still good) and beaten plenty of P5 also-rans. I think these are good for confidence and visibility. The last time we didn’t have a single P5 on the schedule dates all the way back to last year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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