Staying Close to the Vest - Ex Coach Groce-related News and Views

[clarkwgriswold]

It's a step up in salary and donors to feed the NIL pot.

[GP1]

41 minutes ago, Reslife4Life said:

The only things that make Charleston sound like a step up are a lack of football team, and the weather. If those are actually true I don't know how Akron would prevent this from happening again with another successful coach  

And the food. 

[kreed5120]

Providence offering Hodgson $1M more in NIL is why he took that job over Syracuse. Syracuse historically is a much better program than Providence but none of that matters because Providence is willing to pay players more now in the present, which is what is driving coaching decisions in this new age of college athletics.

 

If CoC is willing to 2x-2.5x Akron's NIL spend it is a step up. It's unfortunate it has come to this, but that's the price we're paying by trying to field both an FBS team (albeit also poorly funded) and a D1 basketball program. Our resources are going to be spread much thinner compared to a school the focuses primarily on basketball.

Edited 21 hours ago by kreed5120

[1981 grad]

1 hour ago, GP1 said:

And the food. 

And the attendance.  We average 2200 fans while Charleston averages 4900 fans. 

[mrelegazna]

4 hours ago, 1981 grad said:

And the attendance.  We average 2200 fans while Charleston averages 4900 fans. 

That's it? Gawd. I don't want to turn this thread into yet another intractable discussion about how to draw more fans, but after what we saw in Cleveland, there's got to be a way.  I don't know what it is, but someone's got to be able to crack the code.

[GP1]

4 hours ago, mrelegazna said:

That's it? Gawd. I don't want to turn this thread into yet another intractable discussion about how to draw more fans, but after what we saw in Cleveland, there's got to be a way.  I don't know what it is, but someone's got to be able to crack the code.

I love discussions about attendance. It lets me watch fan misjudge all of the variables that go into attendance. Moreover, it allows fans to believe the fiction (lies) athletic departments publish about their attendance. Compounding all of that, it allows fans to apply those misjudgements and lies into motivations for a coach's decision making. 

[kreed5120]

4 hours ago, mrelegazna said:

That's it? Gawd. I don't want to turn this thread into yet another intractable discussion about how to draw more fans, but after what we saw in Cleveland, there's got to be a way.  I don't know what it is, but someone's got to be able to crack the code.

 

It's not much of a surprise if you attended a non-Kent home game this season. Pretty much all the games the JAR was only 1/3-1/2 full.

[a-zip]

30 minutes ago, GP1 said:

I love discussions about attendance. It lets me watch fan misjudge all of the variables that go into attendance. Moreover, it allows fans to believe the fiction (lies) athletic departments publish about their attendance. Compounding all of that, it allows fans to apply those misjudgements and lies into motivations for a coach's decision making. 

So what's the problem then?

[NWAkron]

I guess this is the end of the line.

[Let'sGoZips94]

5 hours ago, mrelegazna said:

That's it? Gawd. I don't want to turn this thread into yet another intractable discussion about how to draw more fans, but after what we saw in Cleveland, there's got to be a way.  I don't know what it is, but someone's got to be able to crack the code.

 

Not to derail the convo even further, but a huge part of the problem is the MAC schedules their conference games on Tuesdays with the top Saturday games typically flexed to Friday nights. 

 

HS boys basketball players would likely be the demographic most likely to attend a quality DI hoops game right?

 

Ohio HS boys basketball is played on Tuesdays and Fridays. 

 

A conference schedule change would be the most cost effective first logical step in attempting to boost attendance. Wouldn't cost the University a dime.  The MAC and Steinbrecher are that stupid, though. 

[Zippy87]

10 minutes ago, NWAkron said:

I guess this is the end of the line.

 

Why?

[clarkwgriswold]

Hopefully, with the switch to a new coach we won't see the drop-off in fans we saw when KD left.

[zippy5]

20 minutes ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

 

Not to derail the convo even further, but a huge part of the problem is the MAC schedules their conference games on Tuesdays with the top Saturday games typically flexed to Friday nights. 

 

HS boys basketball players would likely be the demographic most likely to attend a quality DI hoops game right?

 

Ohio HS boys basketball is played on Tuesdays and Fridays. 

 

A conference schedule change would be the most cost effective first logical step in attempting to boost attendance. Wouldn't cost the University a dime.  The MAC and Steinbrecher are that stupid, though. 

Friday home games

 

EMU 1,843 (winter break)

Kent 4,847

Umass 2,125

NIU 2,768

 

Saturday

 

WMU 2,396

 

Small sample size obviously. I don't see it

[Zippy87]

7 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

Hopefully, with the switch to a new coach we won't see the drop-off in fans we saw when KD left.

 

Did something get finalized?

[ZipForNow]

29 minutes ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

 

Not to derail the convo even further, but a huge part of the problem is the MAC schedules their conference games on Tuesdays with the top Saturday games typically flexed to Friday nights. 

 

HS boys basketball players would likely be the demographic most likely to attend a quality DI hoops game right?

 

Ohio HS boys basketball is played on Tuesdays and Fridays. 

 

A conference schedule change would be the most cost effective first logical step in attempting to boost attendance. Wouldn't cost the University a dime.  The MAC and Steinbrecher are that stupid, though. 

How does revenue from broadcasting fit into this picture? Do decisions based on tv viewing negatively impact attendance? Maybe games get flexed to Fridays for TV purposes.

[Captain Kangaroo]

9 minutes ago, ZipForNow said:

Maybe games get flexed to Fridays for TV purposes.

Maybe?

[kreed5120]

17 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

Friday home games

 

EMU 1,843 (winter break)

Kent 4,847

Umass 2,125

NIU 2,768

 

Saturday

 

WMU 2,396

 

Small sample size obviously. I don't see it

 

I'm in agreement with you. It shouldn't be a challenge to get 3,500-4,000 people to an Akron game given their success. It's not like the JAR is some oversized Wolstein Center that we need to get 9k to in order to make it an exciting atmosphere.

 

IMO the larger problem is apathy and small STH base. Need a larger, more dedicated fanbase. Not just people who show up for just Kent and the MAC tournament. It's more a matter of how can that be achieved.

 

I also kind of enjoy the Friday games, particularly when the Zips are on the road, as it's nice not being on ESPN+. The production quality is better.

Edited 10 hours ago by kreed5120

[Let'sGoZips94]

18 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

Friday home games

 

EMU 1,843 (winter break)

Kent 4,847

Umass 2,125

NIU 2,768

 

Saturday

 

WMU 2,396

 

Small sample size obviously. I don't see it

 

And what you just pointed out is the other HUGE problem that plagues the MAC is nobody cares about the Directional Michigans, NIUs, and Balls. 

 

Not to mention there is a residual effect from rarely allowing your local HS boys basketball demographic to attend games. How are we to expect kids/families to root for Zips basketball when they can't attend the games in their own backyard because of scheduling conflicts? 

 

I'm not saying these two pieces are the entire pie, but they're the two largest chunks. 

 

13 minutes ago, ZipForNow said:

How does revenue from broadcasting fit into this picture? Do decisions based on tv viewing negatively impact attendance? Maybe games get flexed to Fridays for TV purposes.

 

The networks control the flexing schedule. Not sure why the MAC wouldn't be able to get similar revenue deals, though, with a Monday/Thursday schedule (flex Thursday games to Fridays still, but at least you're not playing games on Tuesdays) or Wednesday/Sunday. 

Edited 10 hours ago by Let'sGoZips94

[clarkwgriswold]

21 minutes ago, Zippy87 said:

 

Did something get finalized?

No.

[zippy5]

10 minutes ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

 

And what you just pointed out is the other HUGE problem that plagues the MAC is nobody cares about the Directional Michigans, NIUs, and Balls. 

 

This is the real issue imo. Zips Nation shows out for meaningful games (ie Kent and MAC tourney). Beating EMU by 20 just isn't that interesting anymore. 

 

That said, we should still be able to get more than 2K. 

Edited 10 hours ago by zippy5

[VAZip]

Being in Richmond I saw what a tournament run did for bb  attendance at VCU firsthand. Prior to that VCU was not that much different than Akron…mostly a commuter college. I think Akron came within minutes of turning bb attendance around in the UCLA game. Been a Zips fan since 2012 and I think the band has been playing the same songs in the same order for that long…maybe that’s the problem…everything on game night has become too stale! But what do I know

 

 

[ZipsBBjunkie]

[Let'sGoZips94]

10 minutes ago, ZipsBBjunkie said:

 

The Dustin Ford era is about to begin.

 

Bobcat Attack has to be in shambles to hear that lol. 

[GP1]

1 hour ago, a-zip said:

So what's the problem then?

The purposeful devaluation of college basketballs regular season by those who run it. Make everything about March Madness and nobody pays attention until March Madness. 

 

There are many other problems, but I think that's a big one. 

[1981 grad]

47 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

No.

I brought up the attendance issue because this board is wondering why Groce is making a lateral move.  The only time I have heard him express his frustration is with the attendance so I checked the attendance for the college of Charleston.  I understand Groce's frustration is that the Zips had their highest win total, the longest home winning streak, and three out of four years we went to the NCAA tourney and he is playing in a half empty jar.  I would also be frustrated.  Every person likes to know that there hard work is appreciated and Akron fans just do not show up to support this team.  I really hope that Groce stays but I could also understand why he would want to leave and play in front of 4900 fans instead of 2200 fans.