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Assessing Coach Arth (and his staff)

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17 minutes ago, zipsoutsider said:

My prediction is that we would continue losing if we dropped. Dropping is not a solution. It's a cop out 

 

Agreed.  Struggling in FCS will make matters even worse.   I would only drop if there was a commitment to make it work.  And if there was a commitment to make it work, then it should work in FBS too.

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On 10/27/2019 at 7:42 PM, dre22era said:

FYI Tom Arth will earn $500k before bonuses this year.

When you team has not won a game, is routinely getting blown out, and has not scored a touchdown since September, what bonus can he possibly obtain?

Edited by 1981 grad
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17 hours ago, zipsoutsider said:

My prediction is that we would continue losing if we dropped. Dropping is not a solution. It's a cop out 

 

Rumor has it (on zn.o) that it's already a done deal. Probably FCS (a little less losing)  but preferably Div. II (more winning). 

Div. III (lots of winning!) would be the ultimate prize, but probably too much to hope for at this point.

 

Edited by ZippyRulz
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9 hours ago, ZippyRulz said:

 

Rumor has it (on zn.o) that it's already a done deal. Probably FCS (a little less losing)  but preferably Div. II (more winning). 

Div. III (lots of winning!) would be the ultimate prize, but probably too much to hope for at this point.

 

That's a joke. A lot has to change before sustained winning can be expected at any level. Congrats, UA. You will have a mediocre D3 team with  mediocre D3 coach.

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You could drop to whatever level you want. If the same dumbasses keep making dumbass decisions...it doesn’t matter. In fact, dropping to a lower level would be a dumbass decision.  

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11 hours ago, ZippyRulz said:

 

Rumor has it (on zn.o) that it's already a done deal. Probably FCS (a little less losing)  but preferably Div. II (more winning). 

Div. III (lots of winning!) would be the ultimate prize, but probably too much to hope for at this point.

 

Well, we all know rumors are like a certain part of everyone's anatomy. But,you all know I have been throwing this out for a few years now. Not because I want to see it happen. But, because I think the new Prez. was brought in to try to 'clean up' the financial mess that that one of the (unamed) previous Prezes  put the U of A in. This may be less about athletics than FINANCES!! NO!?  The 2 main varsity sports, football and basketball are financial losers. Big expenditures,little return. Soccer, though generally successful doesn't add to the bottom line financially.

I am not so sure that possible recruits are going to see all this and walk away from Akron,unfortunately. If football and basketball can have successful seasons in 2020 it may postpone anything drastic....but.

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How is it cheaper?

The athletes still get their scholarships.

We get less TV money from ESPN

The team still travels to wherever it travels to.

There is less or no post season money.

The coaches are under contract so maybe years from now we could get cheaper coaches.

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3 hours ago, a-zip said:

You could drop to whatever level you want. If the same dumbasses keep making dumbass decisions...it doesn’t matter. In fact, dropping to a lower level would be a dumbass decision.  

So should the Bengals & Dolphins move to the Canadian league? Child please! Get a grip.. Get on board and support these guys. Fair weather fan you are. Be positive !!

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9 hours ago, John Ward said:

So should the Bengals & Dolphins move to the Canadian league? Child please! Get a grip.. Get on board and support these guys. Fair weather fan you are. Be positive !!

You and a-zip agree, @John Ward.  He was trying to say that he doesn't want to drop to a lower division either.  He's supporting the fellas.  

 

*Unless I'm completely mis-reading your post, @a-zip?

 

 

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9 hours ago, John Ward said:

So should the Bengals & Dolphins move to the Canadian league? Child please! Get a grip.. Get on board and support these guys. Fair weather fan you are. Be positive !!

You obviously do not understand my post.  

 

Did you just say "Child please!" to me 🤣

Edited by a-zip

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The football program bleeds money because of the football stadium. A cost that doesn't go away regardless if we drop down or eliminate football entirely. I've made more detailed posts in the past on the matter, but a quick rundown the football program costs ~$10 million to run. $4 million of that is tied to the stadium debt payments. This means the operating costs are $6 million. We get ~$1.5 million per body bag game, which we have been scheduling 2 per year so that's $3 million in revenue right there. Next we get ~$1 million for the MAC tv deal. The college football playoff distributions pays something in the neighborhood of $500k-$800k. Just between those three revenue sources we're looking at $4.5 million in revenue. This doesn't even include ticket sales, parking, concessions, advertisements, etc.

 

  

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3 hours ago, a-zip said:

Did you just say "Child please!" to me 

As in "

 

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2 hours ago, kreed5120 said:

The football program bleeds money because of the football stadium. A cost that doesn't go away regardless if we drop down or eliminate football entirely. I've made more detailed posts in the past on the matter, but a quick rundown the football program costs ~$10 million to run. $4 million of that is tied to the stadium debt payments. This means the operating costs are $6 million. We get ~$1.5 million per body bag game, which we have been scheduling 2 per year so that's $3 million in revenue right there. Next we get ~$1 million for the MAC tv deal. The college football playoff distributions pays something in the neighborhood of $500k-$800k. Just between those three revenue sources we're looking at $4.5 million in revenue. This doesn't even include ticket sales, parking, concessions, advertisements, etc.

 

  

The scholarship bill alone is around $2.5m and salaries/benefits for the staff are another $2m easy.  Are the "body bag" game payouts public?  Not sure that all of them are 1.5m, but in the ballpark for sure.  All things in, football loses money at Akron.  This is not breaking news, and no need to beat the dead horse about athletics finances, which for FY2018 were revenues of $34,601,000, expenses of $34,873,226 and a total of $24,289,339, or 70.20% of the budget coming from the student fee, which is based on Akron’s total enrollment and $1,359 per student annual fee.

 

It makes no sense whatsoever to drop the program at FCS as the MAC is a perfect match for Akron in all things, including the academic profile. The issues come down to historical, long term mismanagement of the limited resources that Akron has athletically to begin with coupled with brutally poor hires in football.

 

Make good hires on and off the field, find the right mix of sports and do not add sports that drain resources from support staff, other budgets, and operate with a thoughtful strategic goal of winning more than you lose, and Akron can win again.

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53 minutes ago, DannyHoke said:

The scholarship bill alone is around $2.5m and salaries/benefits for the staff are another $2m easy.  Are the "body bag" game payouts public?  Not sure that all of them are 1.5m, but in the ballpark for sure.  All things in, football loses money at Akron.  This is not breaking news, and no need to beat the dead horse about athletics finances, which for FY2018 were revenues of $34,601,000, expenses of $34,873,226 and a total of $24,289,339, or 70.20% of the budget coming from the student fee, which is based on Akron’s total enrollment and $1,359 per student annual fee.

 

It makes no sense whatsoever to drop the program at FCS as the MAC is a perfect match for Akron in all things, including the academic profile. The issues come down to historical, long term mismanagement of the limited resources that Akron has athletically to begin with coupled with brutally poor hires in football.

 

Make good hires on and off the field, find the right mix of sports and do not add sports that drain resources from support staff, other budgets, and operate with a thoughtful strategic goal of winning more than you lose, and Akron can win again.

 

They are for the most part public. The costs typically range between $1.2-1.5 million with the cost for future games steadily increasing year over year. Basketball and soccer generate some revenue, however, I don't think there is any denying the fact football generates the bulk of that $10 million in real revenue.

 

https://deadspin.com/akron-and-south-carolina-will-play-the-most-meaningless-1830780166

Quote

In a twist that will doubtless surprise even longtime college sports observers, South Carolina decided not to absorb that loss. In a further twist that ... honestly I’m not even going to do the sarcasm thing again, but unsurprisingly South Carolina is having a terrible time selling tickets for the game and may wind up taking a bath again. Akron, which is currently engaged in a legal dispute with Nebraska in an attempt to claim the $1.17 million fee that they had been promised for that canceled game in Lincoln, is contracted be paid $1.3 million, plus what now seems like a stingy guarantee of 2,000 seats, for traveling to South Carolina on Saturday.

 

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On 10/29/2019 at 12:08 AM, 1981 grad said:

When you team has not won a game, is routinely getting blown out, and has not scored a touchdown since September, what bonus can he possibly obtain?

 

See my comment shortly after that one in which I specified academic achievement as the only potential bonus.

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On 10/29/2019 at 10:05 PM, John Ward said:

So should the Bengals & Dolphins move to the Canadian league? Child please! Get a grip.. Get on board and support these guys. Fair weather fan you are. Be positive !!

 

With all due respect...I don't think ANY Zips fan can ever be called a "Fair Weather Fan".  If we're still here, and willing to post on a Zips-Fandom Forum...we're probably not fair weather fans brother!  But we, as a collective, do probably need to band together a bit.  The Zips fandom always seems a little divided... :(

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Personally, Akron football at this particular moment is unwatchable. The offense is horrid and the defense is porous. I don't know if it's a talent-to-scheme-fit problem or a coaching/game plan problem, but it's plain garbage right now. 

 

With that being said, when I watch Arth coach, he doesn't come off as a guy that will be complacent in his work. He has a lot of passion. I think the jump to DI FBS has come as a shock to him, but I also think he'll make the necessary corrections next year to change that. Bowden was fired because he became complacent and dug in. 

 

If I'm wrong, the football program and University as a whole are in deep, DEEP trouble. 

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On 10/28/2019 at 1:12 PM, 94zipgrad said:

I 💯% agree, you would have to see his post in totality,  I believe the moderators have moved & created a nicer thread.  He came in trying to start problems.  I’m all for talking & hearing opinions but every week he starts it all over again, trust me, I feel the pain just as everyone does.  Rather you agree with firing & hiring there isn’t anything we can do.  You never see a firing within the first year of a coach that is coming into a mess, we were on a downward trend with nothing in the cupboards.  Finding a coach isn’t easy & once you make the decision you gotta give him a chance.  I was for keeping Bowden & getting a new OC & maybe even getting some younger coaches so we could do a better job on the recruiting trail.  Ultimately that is where it all starts.  But once they made the decision I wanted Getsy because he was a QB here,  was on Green Bay staff & is a current SEC OC & makes $600,000 as an OC & we would of had to pay more than what I think the University was willing to pay but it maybe would have been worth it as doing this bad is costing more than the $500k we are paying Arth.  Lastly Getsy has D1 playing & coaching experience.  Arth had neither & his learning curve is bigger & I think we see that now.

 

I am open to the posters opinions & thoughts, some posters are not honestly here to share thoughts & opinions but to stir the pot

 

I was a Bowden fan, but wanted him to fire the OC.  However, the expectations were higher his last couple of years and he did not produce.  I, like most fans, agreed with his dismissal at the time it happened.  Now, there is back pedaling across the board.  He is gone now so he is not an option, and we need to focus on the current situation and move on.  

 

I would have liked Getsy as the head coach, but that did not happen.  The statement above that 'Getsy has D1 playing and coaching experience. Arth has neither' is correct.  However, Arth played in the NFL.  He was not a star, but he made an NFL team.  That is much so better than D1.  He was also endorsed by Bernie Kosar and Peyton Manning, two of the smartest NFL players ever.  These facts make it evident that Arth has very high football smarts.  Now, that does not prove that he can recruit or coach.  He has to prove that he can.

 

Also, the talent level that Bowden left was pretty low.  Pre-season analytics had the Zips losing each game, but they were predicted at a 1-2 win level based on statistics that they could have pulled off a couple of wins.  Based on these facts, Arth is meeting expectations.  Also, Arth's recruiting ratings last year were good considering the fact that he had a late start.  In fact, many on this nation said it was better than any recruiting class in the Bowden era.  Also, in 247 recruiting, he has all 3 star prospects to date this year.  So, I have faith that he is brining in talent.  With most of Bowden's classes, the recruits had only one offer, that from Akron.  That appears to be improving as many of last year's recruits and this year's commits have more than one offer.  

 

I am disappointed and frustrated about the Zips season.  However, Arth should never be compared to Ianello regarding football knowledge, who did not play college ball (I could not find any stats that he played).  Arth has a high football IQ as evident by his experience.  Now, he needs some time to get the right staff and players and make a push toward having a successful season.  I will be at the next two home games, and I will try to follow today's game if I can find it on air.  I will always remain a faithful Zip with expectations of a much better 20 season and a good 21 season.  Go Zips!!!

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11 hours ago, bigjim said:

I was a Bowden fan, but wanted him to fire the OC.  However, the expectations were higher his last couple of years and he did not produce.  I, like most fans, agreed with his dismissal at the time it happened.  Now, there is back pedaling across the board.  He is gone now so he is not an option, and we need to focus on the current situation and move on.  

 

Though this seems to be a toxic subject...I should probably stay away...but I don't think it's fair to call people out for back-pedaling or talking about the past situation vs the new. The grass is always greener until it isn't.  We all want something better, until we realize the "better" wasn't an improvement and possibly a step backwards.  HOWEVER; those critics of Arth should probably take a step back and apply that same logic; "the grass is always greener until...".

Realizing we probably made a mistake isn't bad, and talking about it.  Though I'm personally hoping we can see something to pull us into next year instead of just doom-and-gloom all the time.  Go Zips!

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