Critiquing Coach Bowden

[Let'sGoZips94]

1 hour ago, zipsoutsider said:

I am not going to play this game with you. It is actually pretty pathetic. When the Zips win to the liking of some, crickets. When they don't win by the margin some deem worthy, whining and complaining. It really boils down to your failure to see that there is not as much of a gap from the top to the bottom of the conference as some like to believe there is and that different teams match up, differently.

 

If you want to complain about how bad a football team is, and a coach and an OC worthy of firing, you always have the Hue, Haley, and the Browns, lol. 

 

 

 

When he took over, Bowden's philosophy was... 

 

Year One: Lose Big (in hindsight, this should never be part of any coach's philosophy)

Year Two: Lose Small

Year Three: Win Small

Year Four: Win Big

 

We're in year 6, and are both losing big and winning small. So not winning "by the margin some deem worthy" is a very valid reason to complain when the expectations were set by our own HC. 

[72 Roo]

12 hours ago, Zipmlady said:

If changes were made; you would just find something else to whine about.

You mistake whining for asking for a better product. Do you go to the games? Have you seen the quality of players we are recruiting and how they are being misused? PJ Fleck was 1-11 his first year at WMU. By his third year he had them in a major bowl. Coaching matters and coaching has to be held accountable. Do you really think we should rejoice when we beat a Northwestern and then lose to a poor Miami? We struggle against inferior Kent and CMU while being destroyed by Buffalo. After 7 years I expect better. Let's stop making excuses for poor performance. If Lance Leipold (sp ?) at Buffalo can build a juggernaut in three years we can do it at Akron in seven with better facilities, recruiting base and support. It's not whining to expect quality in a program.

[Blue & Gold]

1 hour ago, bigjim said:

Great discussions.  Nothing will happen until the end of the season.  Let's beat BG and hopefully win one of the other three games and go bowling.  

 

Does anyone know the final decisions with Nebraska?  Will Akron get the $1.1mm or is it lost since Nebraska played BC? 

Welcome to ZipsNation, big jim!  Glad you're here!

 

I haven't heard any updates on the current financial situation with Nebraska.  It's a mess.  

[Lee Adams]

26 minutes ago, 72 Roo said:

You mistake whining for asking for a better product. Do you go to the games? Have you seen the quality of players we are recruiting and how they are being misused? PJ Fleck was 1-11 his first year at WMU. By his third year he had them in a major bowl. Coaching matters and coaching has to be held accountable. Do you really think we should rejoice when we beat a Northwestern and then lose to a poor Miami? We struggle against inferior Kent and CMU while being destroyed by Buffalo. After 7 years I expect better. Let's stop making excuses for poor performance. If Lance Leipold (sp ?) at Buffalo can build a juggernaut in three years we can do it at Akron in seven with better facilities, recruiting base and support. It's not whining to expect quality in a program.

 

I think what is frustrating is that this program has made progress since Bowden took over. Shoot,where do you go from 1-11? That's history. But,at least some fans see that some of the same things that were happening in years 2,3 etc. are continuing to occur. That is especially true on the offensive side of the ball. The lack of consistency,the weak play of the offensive lines,the inability to consistently run the ball,the seeming inability to really develop a top notch QB like we have seen at other MAC schools,the lack of player discipline during the games and what many fans who have actually been attending a large number of games over the years see as a maddening inability to develop coherent offensive game plans. Make no mistake,without some of the really good defensive play that we have seen here over the past several years,this program would not have been in a position to go to bowl games or to a MAC championship game by relying on the offense.  And yes,when we see over the years the consistent winners at NIU,WMU,Toledo,OU and now a program at UB that has been quickly turned around, fans wonder why not at Akron. Nobody expects a MAC champ every season. But,what they want to see is the ability of this program to play competitively against those top quality teams every year.

 

 

[Lee Adams]

23 hours ago, footballzip said:

Try to look at the glass half full. We forgot about Zips beating Northwestern who beat Wisconsin yesterday. Bowden is a pretty loyal guy. I don't see him getting rid of Milwee. The MAC is a pretty good conference this year. E .Michigan and Miami are both decent programs now. E Michigan beat Purdue earlier in the season and Purdue taking out the OSU a weeks ago.

I remember when JD Brookhart was hired in 2004 after Lee Owens actually had a winning season in 2003(I believe). JD took what was left of Owen's bunch(some of whom were really good,without Charley Frye) and added some solid pieces and managed somehow to win a MAC championship in 2005. A bunch of us were really excited about 2006. Some quality was returning and JD added what appeared to be some solid recruits(had a freshman all America). In 2006 they went to NC State and beat Chuck's boys if memory serves. But,that season while competitive never panned out. '07,'08 and '09 were disappointments also. They did go up to Syracuse one year and beat them. If they had beaten UB in the last game at the Rubber Bowl in '08 they may have won the division again. '09 even with the new stadium wasn't good. JD was gone. 6 years! Point being that some coaches have the ability to get a program to a certain level then things stall. We will know at the end of this season if that's where this program is at now.

[zipsoutsider]

1 hour ago, 72 Roo said:

You mistake whining for asking for a better product. Do you go to the games? Have you seen the quality of players we are recruiting and how they are being misused? PJ Fleck was 1-11 his first year at WMU. By his third year he had them in a major bowl. Coaching matters and coaching has to be held accountable. Do you really think we should rejoice when we beat a Northwestern and then lose to a poor Miami? We struggle against inferior Kent and CMU while being destroyed by Buffalo. After 7 years I expect better. Let's stop making excuses for poor performance. If Lance Leipold (sp ?) at Buffalo can build a juggernaut in three years we can do it at Akron in seven with better facilities, recruiting base and support. It's not whining to expect quality in a program.

Lance doesnt have a juggernaut, he has a star QB. 

[kreed5120]

Buffalo Defense Stats (MAC Rank)

1st in scoring defense

1st in yards against

1st in turnovers forced

T-2 in sacks

 

Buffalo Offense Stats (MAC Rank)

5th in passing ypg

4th rushing ypg

5th in total offense

4th in scoring

 

They appear to be a complete team and if anything it's actually their defense carrying them.

 

Edited October 29, 2018 by kreed5120

[zippy5]

54 minutes ago, zipsoutsider said:

Lance doesnt have a juggernaut, he has a star QB. 

Who wasn't even a Leipold recruit. He's obviously coached him up pretty well, but we'll see where they are when he's gone.

 

I get what others are saying about stagnating, I do. But I think some are underestimating the depths we sank to. I'm really curious how we'll look next year.. We got to two bowl games with the most patchwork recruiting classes I've seen in CFB. Half have been transfers, and the other half were gambles on kids that didn't even have recruiting profiles. Which isn't the be all-end all with recruiting but the odds aren't great if that's all you've got. We're now setting a foundation and bringing in kids with offers from other decent schools. If next year looks the same, I might start to feel the same way. But at the same time, I'm pretty grateful that we're in a spot where a bowl game isn't that huge of a deal anymore to most.

[kreed5120]

57 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

Who wasn't even a Leipold recruit. He's obviously coached him up pretty well, but we'll see where they are when he's gone.

 

I get what others are saying about stagnating, I do. But I think some are underestimating the depths we sank to. I'm really curious how we'll look next year.. We got to two bowl games with the most patchwork recruiting classes I've seen in CFB. Half have been transfers, and the other half were gambles on kids that didn't even have recruiting profiles. Which isn't the be all-end all with recruiting but the odds aren't great if that's all you've got. We're now setting a foundation and bringing in kids with offers from other decent schools. If next year looks the same, I might start to feel the same way. But at the same time, I'm pretty grateful that we're in a spot where a bowl game isn't that huge of a deal anymore to most.

Nearly 2 out of every 3 FBS teams (61.5%) make bowl games now. Making a bowl game use to be the benchmark of a good season, but now even 5-7 teams make bowl appearances. 

Edited October 29, 2018 by kreed5120

[Dr Z]

[CDMac]

8 hours ago, zipsoutsider said:

Lance doesnt have a juggernaut, he has a star QB. 

And I don’t even think he as all that good of a passer. He’s big, strong, and mobile. They’ve put a team around him and play to his strengths but I wasn’t all that impressed seeing him in person other than tall dudes aren’t supposed to be that nifty.  

[Zipmlady]

10 hours ago, 72 Roo said:

You mistake whining for asking for a better product. Do you go to the games? Have you seen the quality of players we are recruiting and how they are being misused? PJ Fleck was 1-11 his first year at WMU. By his third year he had them in a major bowl. Coaching matters and coaching has to be held accountable. Do you really think we should rejoice when we beat a Northwestern and then lose to a poor Miami? We struggle against inferior Kent and CMU while being destroyed by Buffalo. After 7 years I expect better. Let's stop making excuses for poor performance. If Lance Leipold (sp ?) at Buffalo can build a juggernaut in three years we can do it at Akron in seven with better facilities, recruiting base and support. It's not whining to expect quality in a program.

To be clear, I made no mistake.  I’ve only missed two games this year (Buffalo and CMU); and yes, I see the quality of the players being recruited.  Look, there is always room for improvement; but I think we have a good group to continue to build upon.  I would venture a guess that there is not one player or coach that wakes up on game day and says “I think I’ll only give 50% today”.  I know the results are not always what we want or expect; but sometimes we have to be adults and understand, this football thing is hard, winning ain’t easy.  Calling Kato stupid was clearly out of line; it was immature and irresponsible.  From what I’ve observed he is competitive and has a true passion for the game.  Perhaps we are in different places in our lives; but I’m a Zips Fan because my son chooses to play the game.  Because my son chooses to play the game; I chose to be a fan win, lose or draw.  Just my opinion, from one ZIPS fan to another.  Go ZIPS???

 

[a-zip]

What is the next level you all are looking for?  So, who can lead us to the next level....a young hot shot coach who will leave after 2-3 years?

This reminds me of the discussions around our basketball team "going to the next level" and KD not being the guy to do it.  

Bball wins 20+ games, MAC Championships, loses marquis games - deemed a failure by most...KD can't win the big ones and take us to the "next level"

FBall is consistently competitive, has marquis wins, 4 years with Wagon Wheel, bowl appearances, a bowl win - deemed a failure...TB can't take us to the "next level"

 

The definitions of "next level" on here are all over the place. We are and will remain a MAC school - that in itself limits what level you can get to IMHO.

 

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by a-zip

[monrowe]

On ‎9‎/‎12‎/‎2015 at 7:38 PM, Zipgrad01 said:

Terry Bowden is the most overrated coach that we have ever had. At what point during this season do we need to consider canning this guy? I already think he needs to go. Please discuss...

No he shouldn't get fired he needs way more time to develop this program, its just not that competitive.You must be very patient and demand that this program wins consistently.Also ask Terry where's the beef?

[72 Roo]

3 hours ago, Zipmlady said:

To be clear, I made no mistake.  I’ve only missed two games this year (Buffalo and CMU); and yes, I see the quality of the players being recruited.  Look, there is always room for improvement; but I think we have a good group to continue to build upon.  I would venture a guess that there is not one player or coach that wakes up on game day and says “I think I’ll only give 50% today”.  I know the results are not always what we want or expect; but sometimes we have to be adults and understand, this football thing is hard, winning ain’t easy.  Calling Kato stupid was clearly out of line; it was immature and irresponsible.  From what I’ve observed he is competitive and has a true passion for the game.  Perhaps we are in different places in our lives; but I’m a Zips Fan because my son chooses to play the game.  Because my son chooses to play the game; I chose to be a fan win, lose or draw.  Just my opinion, from one ZIPS fan to another.  Go ZIPS???

 

Thank you for your fandom. Thank you for your support. I'll stick by calling Kato stupid because he forced the refs to call an unsportsmanlike penalty on him by going to the other teams bench, which is never, ever allowed. We were going to get a 15 yard penalty on their stupid LB who ran off with Kato's shoe. Be mature, let the refs handle it. They saw it. We get the 15 yards and a first down. Kato is supposed to manage the game, not emotionally let the game manage him. I expect us to play good football. If we do the W's will take care of themselves. When we don't I'll say so. To me it starts with the coaching staff. They are there to solve it especially when we are playing worse than when we started the season. 

 

I wish you well and hope your son stays healthy and achieves all his dreams at Akron. I also played for the Zips. Go Zips.

[Zipmlady]

7 hours ago, 72 Roo said:

I also played for the Zips. Go Zips.

Wow.... then you should know better.  I’m done.

[kreed5120]

11 hours ago, a-zip said:

What is the next level you all are looking for?  So, who can lead us to the next level....a young hot shot coach who will leave after 2-3 years?

This reminds me of the discussions around our basketball team "going to the next level" and KD not being the guy to do it.  

Bball wins 20+ games, MAC Championships, loses marquis games - deemed a failure by most...KD can't win the big ones and take us to the "next level"

FBall is consistently competitive, has marquis wins, 4 years with Wagon Wheel, bowl appearances, a bowl win - deemed a failure...TB can't take us to the "next level"

 

The definitions of "next level" on here are all over the place. We are and will remain a MAC school - that in itself limits what level you can get to IMHO.

I want to consistently be competing for MAC Championships. Dambrot consistently achieved that so you won't find a single post in this forum of me calling for his job. Akron plays in arguably the worst division in all of FBS yet Bowden has managed to only lead the Zips to the title game once in 7 years (yes, I'm already penciling in Buffalo to make it this year). Trying to compare what Bowden achieved, which isn't much, to the success Dambrot had is a disservice to the basketball program that went to 9 MACC in a 11 year span. If Bowden achieved that level of success, I'd be asking for him to get a statue.

Edited October 30, 2018 by kreed5120

[a-zip]

14 hours ago, kreed5120 said:

I want to consistently be competing for MAC Championships. Dambrot consistently achieved that so you won't find a single post in this forum of me calling for his job. Akron plays in arguably the worst division in all of FBS yet Bowden has managed to only lead the Zips to the title game once in 7 years (yes, I'm already penciling in Buffalo to make it this year). Trying to compare what Bowden achieved, which isn't much, to the success Dambrot had is a disservice to the basketball program that went to 9 MACC in a 11 year span. If Bowden achieved that level of success, I'd be asking for him to get a statue.

I hear ya but look through the posts from the past.  MANY (maybe not you) said Dambrot needed to go because he couldn't  "take us to the next level". There were multiple posts about 1 and done in post season, embarrassing losses, etc.  Hey bud, I loved Dambrot and my post is in no way a disservice to what he did for us. He is a friend and I was happy to have him as our coach, sad to see him leave.  I just don't understand what the "next level" is.  You have the power 5 Conferences and then everyone else....Being in the MAC, you hope to knock off a marquis team in the 2-3 chances you get every year.  Once you get in to MAC play...any team can win, the parody is ridiculous.  In an attempt to get to the "next level" you can hire a hot shot young coach who will be gone in 2 years and fall in to oblivion or respectable coach who will stay (i.e. Solich at OU, TB with us).  Just sayin'......be careful what you wish for.

[kreed5120]

9 hours ago, a-zip said:

I hear ya but look through the posts from the past.  MANY (maybe not you) said Dambrot needed to go because he couldn't  "take us to the next level". There were multiple posts about 1 and done in post season, embarrassing losses, etc.  Hey bud, I loved Dambrot and my post is in no way a disservice to what he did for us. He is a friend and I was happy to have him as our coach, sad to see him leave.  I just don't understand what the "next level" is.  You have the power 5 Conferences and then everyone else....Being in the MAC, you hope to knock off a marquis team in the 2-3 chances you get every year.  Once you get in to MAC play...any team can win, the parody is ridiculous.  In an attempt to get to the "next level" you can hire a hot shot young coach who will be gone in 2 years and fall in to oblivion or respectable coach who will stay (i.e. Solich at OU, TB with us).  Just sayin'......be careful what you wish for.

Yes, I agree there were some that wanted Dambrot replaced. The number was much smaller than the ones wanting Bowden gone. You can't please everyone. Personally, I have no problem replacing a head coach every 3-4 years if him having success at Akron is what caused his departure. People act like that's somehow a bad thing. Since 2010 NIU has had 5 11+ win seasons and only 1 losing season. In this same time frame they have had 3 different coaches. Sign me up for that. Toledo is another program that has had success under multiple coaches.

 

You keep referencing parity, but every time Akron plays the top teams in the MAC, we get smoked. In parenthesis is what year that coach was in their tenure when game occurred. Meanwhile, here we sit in Bowden's 7th year and we're still the 5-8th best team in the MAC. The same that we were in year 3 of his tenure.

 

2018 - Buffalo 24 Akron 6 (Leipoid 4th year)

2017 - Game 1 Toledo 48 Akron 21 (Candle 3rd year)

2017 - Game 2 Toledo 45 Akron 28 (Candle 3rd year)

2016 - Western Michigan 41 Akron 0 (Fleck 4th year)

2015 - Bowling Green 59 Akron 10 (Barbers 2nd year)

Edited October 31, 2018 by kreed5120

[Dr Z]

For the record, not that it will matter to some, I know of no ZipsNation member that wanted Keith Dambrot replaced before he left the University. I remember reading a handful of posters thought we reached our potential with his teams, and wanted more (an NCAA tournament win), but didn't think replacing him was the answer. I see very little, if any similarities between Keith Dambrot's situation when he left, and coach Bowden's current situation. The offense needs to be more productive, I think we can all agree with that. Coach has echoed the same. I hope the staff and players can figure it out, and finish out the season strong. November is when you win the MAC. I've always liked what coach Bowden said when he got here "we have to figure out how to win at Akron" 

[72 Roo]

Good Doctor, I agree with you on your point regarding KD. I shared the frustration you spoke of, but looked to KD to find solutions. I felt he was fully capable of doing so. The football situation is very different. You, TB and most postors agree the offense needs fixed. So who can do that? It's the coaching staff. The responsibility is squarely on their shoulders. No member of ZNO is being disloyal by asking them to fix what needs fixed. Personally, I want TB to stay. I like the guy a lot. But first, and most important, I also want him to show that he can fix things. 

[1981 grad]

The thing I do not understand about this team with Bowden is that we played our best football early in the season.  This team looked good against Northwestern and against Iowa State.  Two good teams.  We dominated the first quarter against Miami where they did not have a first down.  We moved the ball but gave up an early fumble.  Miami then went hurry up and our defense floundered giving up 5 or 6  third down plays.  After that first quarter in the Miami game our football team has been mediocre at best.  The last 2 games we won but can anyone say they enjoyed watching these games?  (Except for some spectacular runs by Kato and some great defensive stops)

 

Last year we were big underdogs against Western Michigan and after a day rain delay we pulled out an upset.  I just wonder if there is anyway this team can regroup and play some good football, especially on the offensive side.  I would really like to see Kato get some easy passes to his backs coming out of the backfield.  I would like to see Bowden do something different on offense to get this team to where it was early in the season.

 

 

[ZippyRulz]

On 10/29/2018 at 10:19 PM, a-zip said:

What is the next level you all are looking for ....a young hot shot coach who will leave after 2-3 years?

 

 

Yes! 

 

That and big crowds in the stands watching quality Zips performances (players and coaches) on the field and winning.

 

Edited October 31, 2018 by ZippyRulz

[Captain Kangaroo]

12 hours ago, a-zip said:

I hear ya but look through the posts from the past.  MANY (maybe not you) said Dambrot needed to go because he couldn't  "take us to the next level". 

Since there were MANY...could you provide a link to one? It shouldn't take long to find?

 

Bueller...Bueller...?

[Lee Adams]

54 minutes ago, 1981 grad said:

The thing I do not understand about this team with Bowden is that we played our best football early in the season.  This team looked good against Northwestern and against Iowa State.  Two good teams.  We dominated the first quarter against Miami where they did not have a first down.  We moved the ball but gave up an early fumble.  Miami then went hurry up and our defense floundered giving up 5 or 6  third down plays.  After that first quarter in the Miami game our football team has been mediocre at best.  The last 2 games we won but can anyone say they enjoyed watching these games?  (Except for some spectacular runs by Kato and some great defensive stops)

 

Last year we were big underdogs against Western Michigan and after a day rain delay we pulled out an upset.  I just wonder if there is anyway this team can regroup and play some good football, especially on the offensive side.  I would really like to see Kato get some easy passes to his backs coming out of the backfield.  I would like to see Bowden do something different on offense to get this team to where it was early in the season.

 

 

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