MAC Men's Basketball 2021-2022

[NWAkron]

2 hours ago, LoyalZIP said:

Owens out at Miami. First couple years showed promise, then as the team got older they got worse. They finished a distant 7th place, far behind the top 5 in the league. A team full of very old and experienced seniors should be much much better, and the future could only get worse. 

unfortunate for him and his staff.  He came in the same year Groce did?  He's had so many good players and no results.  Whitford, though, at Ball State was so bad this year.  In the q-final game against Ohio, his team was so undisciplined.  they would start to catch up and then run down and shoot a quick 3 and miss.  There must be a critical mass that occurs on the team's message board that can correlate with a firing except for BG, of course.

[Captain Kangaroo]

3 hours ago, clarkwgriswold said:

 

That's what I expected.  Unfortunately, the mid-majors have become the developmental leagues for the top programs.

I was speaking to a friend of mine who coaches at the Divsion 1 level regarding the transfer portal. His opinion was -

 

1.) It sucks.

2.) You combat it with "culture." If the kids like the staff, and like their teammates, they are much less likely to exit your program.

 

Ball State has no culture. They've been floating in mediocrity for over a decade. Maybe Sparks landed there because the extra year of COVID eligibility meant fewer available scholarships at the P5 level? I don't know...but why would you your prime years in Muncie when you are getting scholarship offers from programs guaranteed annual trips to the NCAA's?

 

I see a lot of #2 with Groce. I can't see Enrique ditching Aziz and Ali to chase glory at Xavier, or some other higher-conference program. The Zips players all seem to like each other. They've bought into Groce's culture and system. They're all growing, excelling, having fun and winning. Why leave?

 

You can't bat 1.000 when recruiting 18-22 year old kids. For every Xerius Williams there's inevitably going to be a Trimble. But batting .750 overall is possible if you're consistent in your approach. And not desperate. Groce is too confident in himself and his system, and his contract situation, to be desperate and load up on mercenaries. From the ashes of the Great Dambrot Exodus he's built an OUTSTANDING program.

 

I'll digress for one moment and mention recruiting "stars" as the pertain to the Zips - Ali and Enrique are arguably our most talented players. Neither was recruited by any D1 programs. ZERO! People go gaga over transfers from Florida...St Johns...Wake Forest...Missouri...there's usually a reason these guys are free agents. Groce recognizes talent like few other coaches I've seen. And places that talent in the best positions for team success. 

 

Sincere Carry is a tremendous basketball talent, but I really doubt he'd have been anything but a disruption had he played at UA. No player will ever admit they're a "me-first" guy...but it's pretty obvious when a player cares more about playing time, personal statistics and adulation than the good of the team. And, which coaches tolerate those antics.

 

I'm keeping my March calendar clear for 2023. I fully expect the 2022-23 Zips to be dancing. 2024 is promised to no one. If Groce were to be lured away, a lot of the team could follow without penalty. I hope that doesn't happen, because the sky is the limit with Groce captaining our ship, and our "super-sophs"... soon-to-be "super-juniors"... inevitably improving.

 

Enjoy the Zips one-year-at-a-time, as the fan of any successful mid-major should!

[NWAkron]

I thought this game was an inflection point.  Notice Trimble didn't make ANY of the final shots.  Also, if you look at the thread you can see some, especially @clarkwgriswold talking about how it was good to limit Trimble's minutes.

[clarkwgriswold]

5 hours ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

I was speaking to a friend of mine who coaches at the Divsion 1 level regarding the transfer portal. His opinion was -

 

1.) It sucks.

2.) You combat it with "culture." If the kids like the staff, and like their teammates, they are much less likely to exit your program.

 

Ball State has no culture. They've been floating in mediocrity for over a decade. Maybe Sparks landed there because the extra year of COVID eligibility meant fewer available scholarships at the P5 level? I don't know...but why would you your prime years in Muncie when you are getting scholarship offers from programs guaranteed annual trips to the NCAA's?

 

I see a lot of #2 with Groce. I can't see Enrique ditching Aziz and Ali to chase glory at Xavier, or some other higher-conference program. The Zips players all seem to like each other. They've bought into Groce's culture and system. They're all growing, excelling, having fun and winning. Why leave?

 

You can't bat 1.000 when recruiting 18-22 year old kids. For every Xerius Williams there's inevitably going to be a Trimble. But batting .750 overall is possible if you're consistent in your approach. And not desperate. Groce is too confident in himself and his system, and his contract situation, to be desperate and load up on mercenaries. From the ashes of the Great Dambrot Exodus he's built an OUTSTANDING program.

 

I'll digress for one moment and mention recruiting "stars" as the pertain to the Zips - Ali and Enrique are arguably our most talented players. Neither was recruited by any D1 programs. ZERO! People go gaga over transfers from Florida...St Johns...Wake Forest...Missouri...there's usually a reason these guys are free agents. Groce recognizes talent like few other coaches I've seen. And places that talent in the best positions for team success. 

 

Sincere Carry is a tremendous basketball talent, but I really doubt he'd have been anything but a disruption had he played at UA. No player will ever admit they're a "me-first" guy...but it's pretty obvious when a player cares more about playing time, personal statistics and adulation than the good of the team. And, which coaches tolerate those antics.

 

I'm keeping my March calendar clear for 2023. I fully expect the 2022-23 Zips to be dancing. 2024 is promised to no one. If Groce were to be lured away, a lot of the team could follow without penalty. I hope that doesn't happen, because the sky is the limit with Groce captaining our ship, and our "super-sophs"... soon-to-be "super-juniors"... inevitably improving.

 

Enjoy the Zips one-year-at-a-time, as the fan of any successful mid-major should!

 

Top-notch comments Captain.  You can just sense that culture stuff when you listen to Groce talk about the kids locker room discussion after the UCLA loss.  That tells me he is instilling a culture and sense of family that makes kids want to stay.

Edited March 23, 2022 by clarkwgriswold

[kreed5120]

Bonzi Wells is apparently interviewing for the BSU job

Edited March 23, 2022 by kreed5120

[Let'sGoZips94]

2 hours ago, clarkwgriswold said:

 

Top-notch comments Captain.  You can just sense that culture stuff when you listen to Grice talk about the kids locker room discussion after the UCLA loss.  That tells me he is instilling a culture and sense of family that makes kids want to stay.

 

100% agree. Akron basketball has an identity again - defense and teamism. It's so much fun to get behind.

 

43 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

Bonzi Wells is apparently interviewing for the BSU job

 

How cool. I hope he gets it.

[dirtyolcrowe]

Travis Steele maybe the lead candidate for the Miami(oh) job

[Let'sGoZips94]

1 hour ago, dirtyolcrowe said:

Travis Steele maybe the lead candidate for the Miami(oh) job

 

Heck of a hire if they can make it happen. 

[72 Roo]

 I enjoy reading the Captain's posts, even when he takes issue with me. This last one was super until he wrote about Groce being lured away. I truly hate to think of him leaving. He is a perfect fit for us. But he needs to do what he sees best. Until then I will try to appreciate every season we have him, but Lord would I love to see him here for a long time.

[LoyalZIP]

I have heard on good authority in the last couple of weeks that Groce got rid of his agent during the beginning of COVID, and hasn't hired one again. Good news for us, as nobody is showing him off and negotiating on his behalf with search firms at other schools. Let's hope it stays this way.

 

While I would be fairly surprised if Groce was still here in 2-3 years, he talks a lot about how he's changed throughout his career. The first time I noticed this was in '19-'20 after clinching a share of the title after the comeback win over OU. He had a Super Soaker water gun in the locker room and was celebrating with the guys after a win like that even though they hadn't clinched the 1 seed and hadn't even beaten Kent yet. In his presser that night, he mentioned that in the past he would've been much more calm and focused on the next step and the next game, but he's learned to appreciate it more in the moment. I'm glad he did then, little did anyone know, that was the true championship celebration that year.

 

Since then, and especially in these last few weeks, you hear him talk about appreciating and enjoying the smaller things. The regular season wins, the wins in the tournament in the first couple rounds, even his daughter's birthday. He said something along the lines of he wanted to focus more on enjoying things in the moment instead of always strictly being on to the next game. You can tell he genuinely enjoys coaching at Akron, at no point has it felt like his foot is out the door.

 

The P6 money will most likely inevitably lure him away eventually, but I think he is starting to see that coaching at a good mid-major for $650k isn't too bad after all. To bring it back to MAC discussion, it's all about the culture. You can't win with culture alone, but I'm giving Akron Culture a lot of credit for these last three years, especially this one (Team 121). I have said numerous times, no other program in the MAC could overcome 2 no-shows from starters at the beginning of the season and do a single thing of significance. They would've given into Walton wanting to be Walton, they would have kept forcing it with Trimble (see: Pinky allowing Carry to lose them a title game), the teams would have fallen apart.

 

It would have been easy to get cocky and let the noise get to you in the midst of a big winning streak going through the conference tournament. It would've been easy to let Kent get under the skin, it would've been easy to fold and pack it in during a trip to the Ypsilanti black hole in the midst of a 3-game losing streak. But Groce got his program of high-character guys to buy in and simply trust their process. They may as well have played NIU in the title game. They just played their butts off regardless of who the opponent was. That was one of my favorite things from the title game, they didn't give a s*** about Kent. They just went out and took what was theirs, and they celebrated for themselves. It was a thing of beauty. Akron Culture. It's a very real thing, that could be dangerous for the rest of the MAC. 

[LoyalZIP]

 

 

Absolutely fell in love with Groce at this moment. He wasn't going to let Buddy Mayborg and Bill Ek leave without hearing what they needed to. A win over Kent and a MAC tournament win @ WMU followed. AKRON CULTURE.

[clarkwgriswold]

23 minutes ago, LoyalZIP said:

 

 

Absolutely fell in love with Groce at this moment. He wasn't going to let Buddy Mayborg and Bill Ek leave without hearing what they needed to. A win over Kent and a MAC tournament win @ WMU followed. AKRON CULTURE.

 

That clip also makes you love Jimond ivey.

[Illini Zip]

8 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

 

That clip also makes you love Jimond ivey.

 

I agree. That is a great moment between player and coach.

 

On a side note, I mentioned Groce's first year team in a previous post and completely forgot about Eric Parrish. I really liked him. Too bad it didn't work out.

Edited March 24, 2022 by Illini Zip

[RowdyZip]

1 hour ago, LoyalZIP said:

Absolutely fell in love with Groce at this moment. He wasn't going to let Buddy Mayborg and Bill Ek leave without hearing what they needed to. A win over Kent and a MAC tournament win @ WMU followed. AKRON CULTURE.

I think sometimes we fail to see how lucky we are as fans of this program (myself included).  @LoyalZIP's post made me update my MAC records spreadsheet to include both last year and this year and the numbers are remarkable.  I've updated this sheet periodically since the beginning of the Dambrot era (2004-2005), which I consider the start of the "Golden Age" of Zips basketball, so these totals are over the last 18 seasons.  Really illustrates the differences between the old East/West divisions.  If/when Coach Groce moves on, the pressure will be immense to get the right hire to continue the growth of the program.

20 win seasons (ties broken by winning pctg):

1. Akron 14
2. Kent 13
3. Buffalo 9
4. Ohio 9
5. Toledo 7
6. WMU 6
7. BGSU 3
8. EMU 3
9. CMU 3
10. Ball State 2
11. NIU 1
12. Miami 0 (!!!)

Winning Percentage:

1. Akron .668
2. Kent .637
3. Buffalo .608
4. Ohio .599
5. Toledo .533
6. BGSU .490
7. WMU .484
8. Miami .457
9. Ball State .454
10. EMU .451
11. CMU .427
12. NIU .380

 

Edited March 24, 2022 by RowdyZip
Fixing an inappropriate typo in Central's acronym.

[NWAkron]

@LoyalZIP.  Who is the ref that was officiating the BG game when Jayden Sales too the terrible fall?  Was that Buddy?  I thought it was the ref from the recent UCLA game who did the BG game.  

[LoyalZIP]

17 minutes ago, NWAkron said:

@LoyalZIP.  Who is the ref that was officiating the BG game when Jayden Sales too the terrible fall?  Was that Buddy?  I thought it was the ref from the recent UCLA game who did the BG game.  

Hmm.. I can usually remember these kinds of things, but this one I can’t quite picture. One of them may have been Geoff Vejsicky if my memory is correct. If I do some digging I may be able to find it. Terry Wymer did the UCLA game, he’s a fine ref that’s a great guy and retiring soon. Matt Potter called the foul on Aziz down the stretch, he’s a terrible, arrogant ACC ref. 
 

Edit: nice memory, @NWAkron . It was indeed Buddy Mayborg, Vejsicky, and Dambrot’s arch nemesis Rob Kueneman. After the Mayborg thing in Buffalo, I think he’s had maybe 2-3 Akron games since, and I believe recently retired. Assigners are smart enough (sometimes) to know where to send what guys, it was best for Buddy to not get Akron games anymore. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by LoyalZIP

[NWAkron]

I would now refer to the Dambrot years as the Gilded Age and Groce era as the Golden Age.   

[Let'sGoZips94]

1 hour ago, RowdyZip said:

I think sometimes we fail to see how lucky we are as fans of this program (myself included).  @LoyalZIP's post made me update my MAC records spreadsheet to include both last year and this year and the numbers are remarkable.  I've updated this sheet periodically since the beginning of the Dambrot era (2004-2005), which I consider the start of the "Golden Age" of Zips basketball, so these totals are over the last 18 seasons.  Really illustrates the differences between the old East/West divisions.  If/when Coach Groce moves on, the pressure will be immense to get the right hire to continue the growth of the program.

20 win seasons (ties broken by winning pctg):

1. Akron 14
2. Kent 13
3. Buffalo 9
4. Ohio 9
5. Toledo 7
6. WMU 6
7. BGSU 3
8. EMU 3
9. CMU 3
10. Ball State 2
11. NIU 1
12. Miami 0 (!!!)

Winning Percentage:

1. Akron .668
2. Kent .637
3. Buffalo .608
4. Ohio .599
5. Toledo .533
6. BGSU .490
7. WMU .484
8. Miami .457
9. Ball State .454
10. EMU .451
11. CMU .427
12. NIU .380

 

 

This is why success in the NCAA Tournament is so key. I see that list, and unless you're an Akron fan or hardcore MAC fan, I doubt you would have any idea of the general success of Akron's program.

 

Buffalo, OU, and KSUcks (reputation from 2002) are who the average college basketball fan would probably guess has been the most successful MAC programs in the last 18 years. 

 

Dambrot laid the foundation. Groce is building Akron Culture, and it's a blast to be a part of. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by Let'sGoZips94

[Z.I.P.]

17 hours ago, dirtyolcrowe said:

Travis Steele maybe the lead candidate for the Miami(oh) job

Fascinating-- and hilarious discussion of Steele on Miami Hawktalk!  Apparently coach is married to an heir to an old money family in Cinci, and fans suggesting they can get an ex-X coach and a Millett Hall remodel in one package!  😂

[NWAkron]

Our friends in Muncie are hilarious:

 

https://overthepylon.boards.net/thread/4540/new-coach-hired

[Let'sGoZips94]

14 minutes ago, NWAkron said:

Our friends in Muncie are hilarious:

 

https://overthepylon.boards.net/thread/4540/new-coach-hired

 

That's a real kick to the Balls.

[Z.I.P.]

Well, I guess any chance of the MAC getting multiple bids has gone down the drain!  🤷‍♂️😂

[LZIp]

TW did a nice job "failing forward", 

[Blue & Gold]

Michael Lewis is the new basketball coach at Ball Sweat. On my phone, can’t post link.

[Captain Kangaroo]

It's good to know that, if this Ukraine thing doesn't play out well, Putin would likely still be welcomed by the Big Sky conference in some capacity.