Zips MAC Tournament- 2023

[Illini Zip]

Just now, Let'sGoZips94 said:

Groce didn't have the horses this year. Missing a piece of 2. Bummer. 

This. 

[monrowe]

23 hours ago, 1981 grad said:

The zips overachieved once again JG is an excellent coach.Hopefully next season he can get some more athletic guard height to transfer in? Way to small to seriously compete.

[Zippy87]

Outplayed, outhustled, outcoached.  

 

Better keep Freeman and find a transfer PG that can create his own shot to replace X. A transfer big to get Enrique some freaking help on the glass would be nice too.

 

 

[NWAkron]

Of all the MAC tournament losses over the years, this one probably hurt the least.  

Same final four as last year.  

I guess we will now wait and see what players have a conversation with God and ask us to respect their decision.

[Zippy87]

Just now, monrowe said:

The zips overachieved once again JG is an excellent coach.Hopefully next season he can get some more athletic guard height to transfer in? Way to small to seriously compete.

 

JG built the outmached roster.  

 

Recruit better.

[NWAkron]

Just now, Zippy87 said:

 

JG built the outmached roster.  

 

Recruit better.

why don't you give it a rest until say...tomorrow.

Edited March 11, 2023 by NWAkron

[LoyalZIP]

Groce singing the praises of the resiliency on the post game. Can’t disagree. You execute the way we did and get down 18 in the second half and it’s real easy to fold. But the turnovers were far too often. The turnover by Hankerson to open the 2nd half was absolutely massive. Just like that, Kent took a 10-point lead. Damn damn damn. Tough night for Nate after a nice stretch of games. 

[Zippy87]

Just now, NWAkron said:

why don't you give it a rest until say...tomorrow.

 

I'm good, these opinions weren't formed tonight. They never adequately replaced what they lost over the summer. Hank/Hunter are solid role players but not difference-makers. Nate Johnson was the only young player who stepped into a bigger role and could be trusted in big games. It's a flawed roster that desperately needs some reinforcements either from within or the transfer portal.

 

 

[NWAkron]

Just now, Zippy87 said:

 

I'm good, these opinions weren't formed tonight. They never adequately replaced what they lost over the summer. Hank/Hunter are solid role players but not difference-makers. Nate Johnson was the only young player who stepped into a bigger role and could be trusted in big games. It's a flawed roster that desperately needs some reinforcements either from within or the transfer portal.

 

 

it's tough in the MAC.  Same final 4 as last year.  I would disagree that Groce was out-coached by Senderoff.  Senderoff had the guys this year.  The problem he has now is that Toledo also has the missing pieces that Akron needed this year. 

[Spin]

It just seemed Kent’s fast start messed with the Akron player’s heads, especially after the loss last week. It put the team into panic mode. We actually outshot them from the three point line, but each time Kent hit one you could see the wind coming out of Akron’s sails. 

 

Kent had 10 steals to Akron’s 3, probably a product of the quick start and the Zips losing their crap. Otherwise the stat lines were very similar. I just don’t think we were mentally equipped for a fast Kent start.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2023 by Spin

[LoyalZIP]

Winning championships, especially repeating, takes a little bit of everything. Great preparation in the summer, re-loading and re-tooling, great scouting and preparation for games, playing like you practice, weathering spurts of not playing well, and a good amount of luck. After the first month of the year, many of us, including myself, felt this team was missing just a bit here and there. And in pretty much every one of those losses, save for the game at Toledo, another bounce or two and the games could go the other way. This group was a lot like the 19-20 team if it was missing a piece or 2. That is absolutely on Groce and the staff. They should have and could have done better in the portal.
 

I got really worried when I saw Mikal Dawson in a boot at Infocision stadium. That was the first sign of worry and bad luck. But this team responded well and finished 3rd in a top heavy league. 
 

Many more thoughts to be had. But this was a fine year. I’m disappointed because I know we were plenty good enough to win this thing. If we’re gonna go down, go down fighting. Not pouting and complaining like the “ole” days. 

[Zippy87]

Just now, NWAkron said:

it's tough in the MAC.  Same final 4 as last year.  I would disagree that Groce was out-coached by Senderoff.  Senderoff had the guys this year.  The problem he has now is that Toledo also has the missing pieces that Akron needed this year. 

 

I do agree they had the better team and, maybe more importantly, more depth. But I also don't think there's anyone to blame but the coach who built the lesser roster.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Groce and think he's great for this program. But he shouldn't be immune from criticism.

[LZIp]

6 minutes ago, Zippy87 said:

 

I'm good, these opinions weren't formed tonight. They never adequately replaced what they lost over the summer. Hank/Hunter are solid role players but not difference-makers. Nate Johnson was the only young player who stepped into a bigger role and could be trusted in big games. It's a flawed roster that desperately needs some reinforcements either from within or the transfer portal.

 

 

 

Just now, LoyalZIP said:

Winning championships, especially repeating, takes a little bit of everything. Great preparation in the summer, re-loading and re-tooling, great scouting and preparation for games, playing like you practice, weathering spurts of not playing well, and a good amount of luck. After the first month of the year, many of us, including myself, felt this team was missing just a bit here and there. And in pretty much every one of those losses, save for the game at Toledo, another bounce or two and the games could go the other way. This group was a lot like the 19-20 team if it was missing a piece or 2. That is absolutely on Groce and the staff. They should have and could have done better in the portal.
 

I got really worried when I saw Mikal Dawson in a boot at Infocision stadium. That was the first sign of worry and bad luck. But this team responded well and finished 3rd in a top heavy league. 
 

Many more thoughts to be had. But this was a fine year. I’m disappointed because I know we were plenty good enough to win this thing. If we’re gonna go down, go down fighting. Not pouting and complaining like the “ole” days. 

Couldn't agree with both of you more.

[NWAkron]

Just now, Zippy87 said:

 

I do agree they had the better team and, maybe more importantly, more depth. But I also don't think there's anyone to blame but the coach who built the lesser roster.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Groce and think he's great for this program. But he shouldn't be immune from criticism.

Trust me...i will criticize as warranted.  but, he's certainly had some real duds from the transfer portal.  nice personality players aren't always going to make it unfortunately.  but I think this is topic for Clark's next thread.  No whining here.  No entitlement.

Edited March 11, 2023 by NWAkron

[Let'sGoZips94]

Just now, Zippy87 said:

 

I do agree they had the better team and, maybe more importantly, more depth. But I also don't think there's anyone to blame but the coach who built the lesser roster.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Groce and think he's great for this program. But he shouldn't be immune from criticism.

 

I don't think he's immune from criticism. I agree he needs to recruit better. However, he had 2 key pieces from last year's team suddenly leave, and our 3rd best player tore his Achilles prior to the season. Hard to retool on the fly like that. Now, the class with Nate Johnson and Kobe Mitchell looks quite underwhelming at the moment. That's a gap, but as the team was constructed to finish last year, Johnson and Mitchell weren't expected to have as big of roles as they did this year - at least not by need. 

 

I love this team. Heck, all of JG's teams are lovable. They're phenomenal to root for. They represent Akron as well as anyone ever has, if not better. They do need more talent, and I expect Groce and company to find that talent. I think your criticisms are fair, but there are also some uncontrollable circumstances that led to the open door for those criticisms.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Let'sGoZips94

[Zippy87]

Just now, Let'sGoZips94 said:

 

I don't think he's immune from criticism. I agree he needs to recruit better. However, he had 2 key pieces from last year's team suddenly leave, and our 3rd best player tore his Achilles prior to the season. Hard to retool on the fly like that. Now, the class with Nate Johnson and Kobe Mitchell looks quite underwhelming at the moment. That's a gap, but as the team was constructed to finish last year, Johnson and Mitchell weren't expected to have as big of roles as they did this year - at least not by need. 

 

I love this team. They're phenomenal to root for. They represent Akron as well as anyone ever has, if not better. They do need more talent, and I expect Groce and company to find that talent. I think your criticisms are fair, but there are also some uncontrollable circumstances that led to the open door for those criticisms.

 

The only uncontrollable circumstance was Dawson's injury though (which I will admit was pretty big). Re-recruiting your own players is now as important (if not more) than recruiting externally. And if those players do leave, you have to be ready to replace them via the portal or internally. They just didn't do that sufficiently.

 

Lots of question marks moving forward.

 

 

[Let'sGoZips94]

43 minutes ago, dre22era said:

Throw the players under the bus and don't hold the coach who recruited them accountable? 

 

 

See my post above. 

 

Groce's criticism will get louder next year if the pieces aren't there. This year was a bit of a wash for me with the departures and Dawson injury. 

[Illini Zip]

Thank you to seniors Castaneda and Hankerson for their great effort, some very enjoyable basketball and a respectable season.

[1981 grad]

X shot 2 of 11 from 3 point land and he forced a lot of those 3 point shots.  He forced one at the end of the game when we were down by four.    We had 18 turnovers.  I will admit about half was based on good defense but the other half were just sloppy passes or just bad plays.  I think Kent was the better team but if Akron played a half decent game we would have won tonight.  That is the disappointing.  I also thought Groce made a mistake yesterday pulling the reserves and putting the starters back in.  He did not take out Tavari but did pull Nate.  It really got in his head tonight as he looked like a dear in headlights not wanting to make a mistake tonight and we could have used him.

 

I also thought the Kent coach made an adjustment in the 2nd half by doubling Freeman after he scored 16 points in the first half.  On the post game Dunn stated he was not doubled but he clearly got doubled the 2nd half and was not as effective.  We also have 2 players, Tribble and Clark, who have no confidence in their shot.  It would have been nice to see Nate or Tavari out there more but Groce just did not trust the frosh with the pressure defense.  I may be in the minority but I believe Akron let this one get away by playing mediocre ball and could not get over the hump to make the one pressure shot to tie the game and put the pressure back on Kent.

[GJGood]

I still hate that a 3rd place finish in the MAC doesn’t have you playing somewhere in a postseason tournament when 8th and 9th place teams in some of the more national brand conferences not only gets you a postseason berth but a NCAA tournament invite.

 

If the CBI or similar event was not a pay to play tournament I think it could hold some real value. I feel this Akron team could use a few more games and more floor time for guys like the two Johnsons, Clarke, and Lyles

[Let'sGoZips94]

28 minutes ago, Zippy87 said:

 

 

Lots of question marks moving forward.

 

 

 

Debatable. I know the Zips are going to play hard, play D, and never give up. As long as the talent gap isn't too big, the system wins most nights. We'll see what this offseason brings, but in Groce I trust. 

[dre22era]

Just now, GJGood said:

I still hate that a 3rd place finish in the MAC doesn’t have you playing somewhere in a postseason tournament when 8th and 9th place teams in some of the more national brand conferences not only gets you a postseason berth but a NCAA tournament invite.

 

If the CBI or similar event was not a pay to play tournament I think it could hold some real value. I feel this Akron team could use a few more games and more floor time for guys like the two Johnsons, Clarke, and Lyles

Exactly why I hate the pathetic conference we play in. MAC hasn't had an at large team in the tournament since Miami of Ohio (98-99 season). 

[GJGood]

Just now, dre22era said:

Exactly why I hate the pathetic conference we play in. MAC hasn't had an at large team in the tournament since Miami of Ohio (98-99 season). 

I hate that too but it’s not like the MAC hasn’t had an at large worthy team for that entire time frame. I can remember a handful of times that the MAC regular season champ was thought of as likely being in even if they lost in Cleveland but every time a team like that existed that team went ahead and cut down the nets in Cleveland anyway.
That said I understand it’s difficult for the MAC to get multiple NCAA bids but there should be more teams from the MAC in the postseason somewhere. The MAC is not a top conference nationally but it is better than half the  conferences out there and always with a good deal of parity at the top.

 

 

[zippy5]

Man I thought X's 3 was dropping after the Tribble block. Game of inches.

 

Also funny to see the most active posters after a loss like this, not really surprising that they're the only ones on my ignore list.

[Illini Zip]

Projections are that the Big Ten will be sending between 8-10 teams of its 14 team conference to the Tourney. Half of them will be gone after the first game and a few might make the Sweet 16. We all know it’s a racket. 
 

I don’t know what the metrics are exactly, but both Toledo and Kent State pass the eye test to me.