Game 27- PCCC

[Zip JD]

11 hours ago, zippy5 said:

That's a fallacy. Bring those punks on back 

Agreed.  Give me the 13-14 team every time.  

[clarkwgriswold]

I really like Nate but I think we need to pump the brakes on our expectations.  The kid averaged 8 points and 3 boards a game when healthy.  I like him and think he'll help but he's not likely to be a huge difference maker.

[LoyalZIP]

6 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

I really like Nate but I think we need to pump the brakes on our expectations.  The kid averaged 8 points and 3 boards a game when healthy.  I like him and think he'll help but he's not likely to be a huge difference maker.

He added a stability and lockdown D, but you are definitely right about his effectiveness overall. He’s fallen out of shape and his 40% 3pt. shot hasn’t been tested in almost 2 months. It’ll take him every bit of the next 2.5 weeks to be ready to contribute in Cleveland. 

[Westie]

Those three games in Cleveland are all Game 7s. He may not be a huge factor but all hands on deck is the mantra. 

[Zip JD]

25 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

The coaches see every minute of a player's life with the team, from team meals to interactions on the bus to practice to play in the games.  You have to trust what they're seeing over what we see 80 minutes a week.

He also knows he needs Tavari to take on a much bigger role next season, so it appears there are expectations Tavari is not meeting (frequently).  We have to trust Groce on this.  Look back at Ali Ali and Freeman when they arrived.  Their development from a buried on the bench frosh and a walk on is amazing.  Groce gets as much out of his players as possible.  How about Tribble?  He couldn't hit the side of the JAR when he arrived.  He has become one of my favorite Zips of all time.  

Edited February 24, 2024 by Zip JD

[Illini Zip]

Something to keep in mind, TJ, Lyles and Scott are the only "true classmen" on the roster. TJ and Lyles are both true Sophomores. And Scott is a true Junior. Everyone else is older due to a red-shirt, injury or the COVID year. 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2024 by Illini Zip

[Blue & Gold]

 

[zipsrule]

6 hours ago, Illini Zip said:

I can’t believe the refs went to the monitor and still got the call wrong.

Groce was hot about that one - and I don't blame him.

[zippy5]

I'm not sure they can reverse a call, it's just to see if there was a flagrant or not I believe 

[clarkwgriswold]

Some food for thought.  Tavari has a higher rate of turnovers per minute played than Tribble, Scott and Thronton and has a lower assists per minute rate than the other three.  Do with that what you will.

[NWAkron]

9 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

Some food for thought.  Tavari has a higher rate of turnovers per minute played than Tribble, Scott and Thronton and has a lower assists per minute rate than the other three.  Do with that what you will.

more double standards.

[clarkwgriswold]

26 minutes ago, NWAkron said:

more double standards.

 

He's apparently not wanting it more and leaving it all on the court!  

[NWAkron]

5 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

 

He's apparently not wanting it more and leaving it all on the court!  

Tavari has that "thousand yard" stare.  never sure what is going on with him.

[LZIp]

Not quite sure I’m understanding all the criticism with T Johnson. He’s been our most consistent player outside of the top 4 for the past month. Still a ways to go, but thinks it’s more attributed to youth/inexperience and physical stature as opposed to something like lack of effort or bad attitude. Said it before, I think a big focus in the weight room would do him wonders.

 

negative plays are magnified when you’re both handling the ball and guarding the guy with the ball every possession.

[Zip JD]

43 minutes ago, LZIp said:

Not quite sure I’m understanding all the criticism with T Johnson. He’s been our most consistent player outside of the top 4 for the past month. Still a ways to go, but thinks it’s more attributed to youth/inexperience and physical stature as opposed to something like lack of effort or bad attitude. Said it before, I think a big focus in the weight room would do him wonders.

 

negative plays are magnified when you’re both handling the ball and guarding the guy with the ball every possession.

I don't think the ZNO Board is out to get TJ.  Most of this was in defense of the coach when the TJ is a victim of a double standard posts hit.

 

TJ has improved and I think he can be a very solid scoring guard in the MAC.  One thing to consider is he has a lot more comp for minutes at this position.  We have a lot of ball handlers who can play guard (and even more comp when Nate gets back) and at this point in their careers are better ball handlers, rebounders and defenders than TJ.  When Ali or Sammy don't box out (which has been known to happen), Groce cannot be as quick to sit them especially if Freeman is in foul trouble.  We don't want Lyles getting 15-18 minutes in crunch time in the 2nd half.  

Edited February 24, 2024 by Zip JD

[Let'sGoZips94]

3 hours ago, Westie said:

Nate was not allowed to run while the cast was on. So it will be a progression but it sure sounds like he’s moving toward a return during the regular season. Would love to at least see him play the final 2-3 games before the tourney even if it’s 12-15 minutes per game

 

Was it his shooting hand?

 

The good thing is after Tuesday, it's all MAC West teams, and the lower echelon MAC West to boot. Should be plenty of opportunities for guys like Prather and Nate to get worked in more. 

[Illini Zip]

29 minutes ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

Was it his shooting hand?

 

Yes, it was his shooting hand unfortunately. I remember Groce mentioning he will have plenty of time to improve his off hand skills.

 

Edit: Correct me if I'm wrong. But I was lead to believe that since Nate's dominate shooting hand was in a cast, he would be practicing dribbling and shooting (without running) with his weak hand.

Edited February 24, 2024 by Illini Zip

[Let'sGoZips94]

5 minutes ago, Illini Zip said:

 

Yes, it was his shooting hand unfortunately. I remember Groce mentioning he will have plenty of time to improve his off hand skills.

 

We need to get up by 20 on someone like EMU or NIU then let Nate experience an in-game shootaround the rest of the game. 

[Illini Zip]

We learned recently there is still hope for Ryan Prather. Talk about someone being buried under a pile of guard competition. He hasn't scored a ton, but he passes the eye test to me.

[NWAkron]

5 minutes ago, Illini Zip said:

We learned recently there is still hope for Ryan Prather. Talk about someone being buried under a pile of guard competition. He hasn't scored a ton, but he passes the eye test to me.

Made clutch FTs.  He needs conditioning.

[clarkwgriswold]

1 hour ago, LZIp said:

Not quite sure I’m understanding all the criticism with T Johnson. He’s been our most consistent player outside of the top 4 for the past month. Still a ways to go, but thinks it’s more attributed to youth/inexperience and physical stature as opposed to something like lack of effort or bad attitude. Said it before, I think a big focus in the weight room would do him wonders.

 

negative plays are magnified when you’re both handling the ball and guarding the guy with the ball every possession.

We're not being critical, we're just explaining what might be in the coaches' minds relative to his minutes as compared to the others at his position.

[zippy5]

26 minutes ago, clarkwgriswold said:

We're not being critical, we're just explaining what might be in the coaches' minds relative to his minutes as compared to the others at his position.

Yeah it seems that some think playing Tavari twenty minutes a night is the magic bullet. I'm sure there are reasons he's playing the minutes he has, and some of what we've seen might explain what the coaches see every day. He has a lot of potential, he'll hopefully put it together 

[LZIp]

1 hour ago, Illini Zip said:

We learned recently there is still hope for Ryan Prather. Talk about someone being buried under a pile of guard competition. He hasn't scored a ton, but he passes the eye test to me.

Agreed completely. 

[Zippy87]

5 hours ago, clarkwgriswold said:

I really like Nate but I think we need to pump the brakes on our expectations.  The kid averaged 8 points and 3 boards a game when healthy.  I like him and think he'll help but he's not likely to be a huge difference maker.

 

The biggest thing with Nate IMO is he shoots outside at a pretty high clip - 43% from deep last year and 42% in the 16 games he played this year. Teams are too comfortable doubling Freeman and daring our guards to make they pay for it. I'm hopeful Nate can help that.

 

3 hours ago, clarkwgriswold said:

Some food for thought.  Tavari has a higher rate of turnovers per minute played than Tribble, Scott and Thronton and has a lower assists per minute rate than the other three.  Do with that what you will.

 

Tavari is a much better scorer than Scott and Thornton. But Groce may be more willing to go with ball control/defense with those two right now because he has other scorers around them. Tavari definitely has the highest overall upside though. 

 

 

[clarkwgriswold]

With Tavari, Scott and Thornton, the Zips have the ability to play whoever is the best on a given night, an advantage many teams don't have.  My only worry would be that that splitting up the time may keep any single one of them from getting into the flow.  In Groce I trust.