Staying Close to the Vest - Ex Coach Groce-related News and Views

[Zippy87]

2 minutes ago, Zips1991 said:

I think the way Coach D left was actually better than the way Groce left. At least he got a big pay raise and had a connection to the school. Groce's departure makes me feel like he just wanted to leave.

 

I agree 100%. KD only left - after 13 years, almost u heard at the time (or any time) - for a job that was very personal for him. Groce interviewed multiple places and seemed to be determined to leave. Very, very different IMO.

 

(But as I said before, Groce is a good man and I respect his decision to leave). 

[Let'sGoZips94]

 

[dirtyolcrowe]

4 hours ago, feetg10 said:

Not gonna lie, those pictures make me sick

They must have had a student take these.  He didn’t include all the banners for CoC!!!!

oh wait……..

[zippy5]

KD took all our players 

[Blue & Gold]

 

[kreed5120]

15 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

KD took all our players 

 

They were leaving anyway. Look at any coaching change and you see huge roster turnover. The exception is if you promote an assistant like we did with Ford. Even then it's no guarantee.

 

Edit: Didn't he only take 2 if I remember right? Hughes and that undersized pg? Memory is fading at my old age.

 

Edit 2: Tavian Dunn-Martin

Edited 8 hours ago by kreed5120

[Zippy87]

13 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

KD took all our players 

 

Only Tavian Dunn-Martin and Michael Hughes - both freshmen - followed him to Duquesne. 

[clarkwgriswold]

44 minutes ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

 

 

Sigh.  We just broke up and I saw her with her new boyfriend.

[zippy5]

36 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

 

They were leaving anyway. Look at any coaching change and you see huge roster turnover. The exception is if you promote an assistant like we did with Ford. Even then it's no guarantee.

 

Edit: Didn't he only take 2 if I remember right? Hughes and that undersized pg? Memory is fading at my old age.

 

Edit 2: Tavian Dunn-Martin

I guess we'll see for ourselves very soon if that happens with any coaching change

[Zippy87]

To add more context to the KD exit - Antino Jackson, Noah Robotham, Josh Williams, and Aaron Jackson were the best players with remaining eligibility. Groce had an opportunity to pitch to all 4, and all 4 transferred elsewhere (none to Duquesne). (That's not a knock on Groce, just the reality of the situation.)

 

As @kreed5120 said, turnover is very common with a coaching change. It may not be that way with Ford because it's a unique situation where the players already know him well and vice-versa. We can only hope. 

[kreed5120]

20 minutes ago, Zippy87 said:

To add more context to the KD exit - Antino Jackson, Noah Robotham, Josh Williams, and Aaron Jackson were the best players with remaining eligibility. Groce had an opportunity to pitch to all 4, and all 4 transferred elsewhere (none to Duquesne). (That's not a knock on Groce, just the reality of the situation.)

 

As @kreed5120 said, turnover is very common with a coaching change. It may not be that way with Ford because it's a unique situation where the players already know him well and vice-versa. We can only hope. 

 

He didn't take Ivey or Utomi either.

 

Hughes only played in about half the games. Combined TDM and Hughes averaged 5.8/2/1.5. That would be like if Halligan and Oggy enter the portal this offseason and someone posts well damn there goes our entire team. Nobody here would treat those losses as something we couldn't recover from.

[Let'sGoZips94]

 

[Reslife4Life]

12 minutes ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

 

Well, the BoT, president, and AD all getting along doesn't seem to happen at UA very often. Good for CoC for figuring that out

[Captain Kangaroo]

Hope the “10 Toes” sales pitch works better for him in Charleston than it did in Akron.

 

10 Toes is a lot more effective if Bubba Wentz (Bud’s Palmetto State cousin) adds 10 G’s to their wallets.

[72 Roo]

4 minutes ago, Reslife4Life said:

Well, the BoT, president, and AD all getting along doesn't seem to happen at UA very often. Good for CoC for figuring that out

In case you haven't noticed it is happening at Akron now. We have exceptional people in all positions and they will work things out. They are doing it now.

[kreed5120]

Interesting to note, Campbell's head coach, who plays in the same conference as CoC, has stepped down to become an assistant coach at Louisville. He is very blunt in his letter saying he's leaving because the University isn't giving him the necessary resources to compete.

 

 

[LZIp]

59 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

 

He didn't take Ivey or Utomi either.

 

Hughes only played in about half the games. Combined TDM and Hughes averaged 5.8/2/1.5. That would be like if Halligan and Oggy enter the portal this offseason and someone posts well damn there goes our entire team. Nobody here would treat those losses as something we couldn't recover from.

Times were different then. Players couldn’t transfer and be immediately eligible. Much easier to reload immediately in today’s environment. I may be misremembering, but I think KD took some signees too. 
 

[Let'sGoZips94]

45 minutes ago, 72 Roo said:

In case you haven't noticed it is happening at Akron now. We have exceptional people in all positions and they will work things out. They are doing it now.

 

That would go against what some have said. 

[72 Roo]

I watched the brief from Groce's press conference on why he decided on C of C. I readily admit I see things thru Zip colored glasses, but his reasoning did not make sense to me. When he cited alignment in the administration I took exception that he has that at UA also. Nemer is making the changes necessary to thrive, B of T chairman Mike Saxon is nothing short of brilliant. Andrew Goodrich understands that athletics is an asset, not a liability and he is gaining the support he will need to right the ship with a greater budget over time. They are all working together.

 

The history at C of C is no better than Akron's. John mentioned the stature of a degree from C of C. I am not qualified to say they are better or less respected than our degrees. Yet I know we have a slew of outstanding depts that grant highly respected degrees.

 

I get the support of the community and the weather may be better than Akron's. That I grant. Still his reasoning for a change to a mid major in a lesser conference puzzles me. A person close to our administration told me John will get three times our NIL money, a far bigger budget and staff, and he is a big fish in a medium sized pond with no competition for resources. That is easier to swallow than what John said.

 

I bear no ill will to John. He gave us 9 great years. I will always celebrate that and regard him in the highest terms. I just don't swallow his reasons for leaving to go to another mid major. He deserves better.

[kreed5120]

35 minutes ago, LZIp said:

I may be misremembering, but I think KD took some signees too. 
 

 

I don't really know if that's true, but if I was an incoming freshman I certainly wouldn't stay committed to a team where I don't know the coaches. After all I doubt Groce was actively trying to recruit any of those players while at Illinois so he had no relationships with them. I would either follow that coach to the new school or go to one of the other schools that was originally trying to recruit me. I imagine you would to if you were in their shoes. That's why coaching changes void NLI.

 

Big Dog and Cheatham were graduating. I believe it was widely known Noah planned to transfer even if Dambrot stayed. I believe the same was true for Josh wanting to play with his brother at Robert Morris. As you mention the portal isn't what it is now so Akron was always in for a rebuild year. May have even played a role in Dambrot deciding then was a better time than ever to make the move.

[zippy5]

He's a diplomatic guy. He's not gonna come out and be like "we can play our players double here hell yeah"

 

But that's why

[kreed5120]

7 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

He's a diplomatic guy. He's not gonna come out and be like "we can play our players double here hell yeah"

 

But that's why

 

Yep, this is the biggest reason. I'm sure weather, fan support, and amenities all are positives, but if NIL CoC was offering was comparable to Akron no way he makes the switch.

[Zippy87]

7 minutes ago, 72 Roo said:

I watched the brief from Groce's press conference on why he decided on C of C. I readily admit I see things thru Zip colored glasses, but his reasoning did not make sense to me. When he cited alignment in the administration I took exception that he has that at UA also. Nemer is making the changes necessary to thrive, B of T chairman Mike Saxon is nothing short of brilliant. Andrew Goodrich understands that athletics is an asset, not a liability and he is gaining the support he will need to right the ship with a greater budget over time. They are all working together.

 

The history at C of C is no better than Akron's. John mentioned the stature of a degree from C of C. I am not qualified to say they are better or less respected than our degrees. Yet I know we have a slew of outstanding depts that grant highly respected degrees.

 

I get the support of the community and the weather may be better than Akron's. That I grant. Still his reasoning for a change to a mid major in a lesser conference puzzles me. A person close to our administration told me John will get three times our NIL money, a far bigger budget and staff, and he is a big fish in a medium sized pond with no competition for resources. That is easier to swallow than what John said.

 

I bear no ill will to John. He gave us 9 great years. I will always celebrate that and regard him in the highest terms. I just don't swallow his reasons for leaving to go to another mid major. He deserves better.

 

We view Groce as an elite coach but power conferences do not. His tenure at Illinois was a disaster. It looks even worse seeing what Underwood did there after they fired Groce. He wasn't mentioned for any P5 job aside from Butler. I think another mid-major like Charleston with a larger NIL budget was the best job he could get. He's still in a one-bid league, though, so his seasons are still going to come down to the conference tournament in March. 

[Let'sGoZips94]

21 minutes ago, zippy5 said:

He's a diplomatic guy. He's not gonna come out and be like "we can play our players double here hell yeah"

 

But that's why

 

Ironic since the CofC AD gave a fiery interview after the press conference and said that anybody who is chasing rhe money isn't welcome at CofC.

 

8 minutes ago, Zippy87 said:

 

We view Groce as an elite coach but power conferences do not. His tenure at Illinois was a disaster. It looks even worse seeing what Underwood did there after they fired Groce. He wasn't mentioned for any P5 job aside from Butler. I think another mid-major like Charleston with a larger NIL budget was the best job he could get. He's still in a one-bid league, though, so his seasons are still going to come down to the conference tournament in March. 

 

There were reports that Utah and I believe NC State also gave John a call. Not sure how serious they were but there was interest. 

 

Fact of the matter is, John wanted Charleston. Their AD stating they didn't interview anyone else proves he knew John was a guarantee. 

 

Outside of discussing the alignment of our own administration, his decision isn't worth dissecting/wasting time on.

[Zippy87]

Just now, Let'sGoZips94 said:

 

Ironic since the CofC AD gave a fiery interview after the press conference and said that anybody who is chasing rhe money isn't welcome at CofC.

 

 

There were reports that Utah and I believe NC State also gave John a call. Not sure how serious they were but there was interest. 

 

Fact of the matter is, John wanted Charleston. Their AD stating they didn't interview anyone else proves he knew John was a guarantee. 

 

Outside of discussing the alignment of our own administration, his decision isn't worth dissecting/wasting time on.

 

John wanted Butler, too. He wanted a lot of places that weren't Akron. I totally respect that - sometimes it is time to move on, and if his budget was getting cut, I get it. But I don't think Charleston was his target gig from the beginning of this.