What are you looking for in a Head coach?

[GJGood]

On 10/6/2021 at 12:45 AM, zipsoutsider said:

How many years should we wait? This guy cannot win.

 It’s a moot point now but I don’t know that I agree. I feel like it takes different coaches different amounts of time. Akron isn’t going to get great recruits off the bat. A culture needs to be built. This isn’t like Harbaugh taking over at Michigan and having losing seasons.

My sticking point is that a huge chunk of the team seems to be freshmen now. That means we are looking to build from the ground floor up. I don’t think you should turn and walk the other way just as you are approaching the staircase or elevator doors. We have started to see growth as this season has gone on and now we are going to turn around and go backwards again.

 

I would be all for the change if this was a veteran team getting these results

[Zippyroo]

50 minutes ago, GJGood said:

 It’s a moot point now but I don’t know that I agree. I feel like it takes different coaches different amounts of time. Akron isn’t going to get great recruits off the bat. A culture needs to be built. This isn’t like Harbaugh taking over at Michigan and having losing seasons.

My sticking point is that a huge chunk of the team seems to be freshmen now. That means we are looking to build from the ground floor up. I don’t think you should turn and walk the other way just as you are approaching the staircase or elevator doors. We have started to see growth as this season has gone on and now we are going to turn around and go backwards again.

 

I would be all for the change if this was a veteran team getting these results

Totally agree with you.  I my mind this is a sad day for Akron football cause it locks us in for another 2-3 years of rebuilding and being bottom dwellers in the MAC......

[RowdyZip]

1 hour ago, GJGood said:

 It’s a moot point now but I don’t know that I agree. I feel like it takes different coaches different amounts of time. Akron isn’t going to get great recruits off the bat. A culture needs to be built. This isn’t like Harbaugh taking over at Michigan and having losing seasons.

My sticking point is that a huge chunk of the team seems to be freshmen now. That means we are looking to build from the ground floor up. I don’t think you should turn and walk the other way just as you are approaching the staircase or elevator doors. We have started to see growth as this season has gone on and now we are going to turn around and go backwards again.

 

I would be all for the change if this was a veteran team getting these results

I watch just about every game, but haven't paid much attention to roster attrition and classes, but wasn't this what everyone was saying during years 1, 2, and now 3?  Are we still calling them freshman because of the extra COVID year, or are these actually 18-19 year olds starting?  

[LZIp]

8 minutes ago, RowdyZip said:

I watch just about every game, but haven't paid much attention to roster attrition and classes, but wasn't this what everyone was saying during years 1, 2, and now 3?  Are we still calling them freshman because of the extra COVID year, or are these actually 18-19 year olds starting?  

Both. We are calling them freshman because they are freshman. Just like every other teams has juniors and seniors who should technically be seniors and graduated without the extra year. We aren't benefitting from having 2nd year freshman because everyone else got the extra year as well.

[Captain Kangaroo]

2 hours ago, GJGood said:

 It’s a moot point now but I don’t know that I agree. I feel like it takes different coaches different amounts of time. Akron isn’t going to get great recruits off the bat. A culture needs to be built. This isn’t like Harbaugh taking over at Michigan and having losing seasons.

My sticking point is that a huge chunk of the team seems to be freshmen now. That means we are looking to build from the ground floor up. I don’t think you should turn and walk the other way just as you are approaching the staircase or elevator doors. We have started to see growth as this season has gone on and now we are going to turn around and go backwards again.

 

I would be all for the change if this was a veteran team getting these results

When Arth decided to build his program predominately with Freshmen, he had to know the beatings would come early and often. He also had to know in today's FBS world that AD's and fans don't wait 5-6 years for a winning record. I think he grossly underestimated either the talent required to win in the MAC, or his ability to recruit enough impactful Freshman. His outdated Freshman-first recruiting approach cost him.

 

The chips were stacked against him from the start, with a late hire. But he could have overcome that with some aggressive recruiting of JUCO and  P5 Transfer talent on the OL and DL.

 

I disagree that the Zips are now going to turn around and go backwards. We are 3-24 during Arth's tenure. That's already rock bottom. By comparison, Terry Bowden took over a winless L-M football program and has won 4 games this year.

 

Arth is a good person, and he'll land on his feet. But he proved he didn't know how to win at Akron. His approach netted 3 wins in 27 games. We need a coach that knows how to win at Akron. And for those who think it isn't possible, look at Kent. They have been worse than the Zips most of the past 20+ years. Until they somehow found a coach that could win at Kent.

 

I'm sure the kids presently in the Zips program are hungry to win. Hopefully the good ones stick around and see some quick success with the new coach.

[zipsoutsider]

1 hour ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

When Arth decided to build his program predominately with Freshmen, he had to know the beatings would come early and often. He also had to know in today's FBS world that AD's and fans don't wait 5-6 years for a winning record. I think he grossly underestimated either the talent required to win in the MAC, or his ability to recruit enough impactful Freshman. His outdated Freshman-first recruiting approach cost him.

 

The chips were stacked against him from the start, with a late hire. But he could have overcome that with some aggressive recruiting of JUCO and  P5 Transfer talent on the OL and DL.

 

I disagree that the Zips are now going to turn around and go backwards. We are 3-24 during Arth's tenure. That's already rock bottom. By comparison, Terry Bowden took over a winless L-M football program and has won 4 games this year.

 

Arth is a good person, and he'll land on his feet. But he proved he didn't know how to win at Akron. His approach netted 3 wins in 27 games. We need a coach that knows how to win at Akron. And for those who think it isn't possible, look at Kent. They have been worse than the Zips most of the past 20+ years. Until they somehow found a coach that could win at Kent.

 

I'm sure the kids presently in the Zips program are hungry to win. Hopefully the good ones stick around and see some quick success with the new coach.

This. 

 

Arth put his eggs all in one basket. It was an outdated mindset and it cost him. No one is building without the portal right now. 

 

It doesn't have to be 2-3 years of misery if they hire the right guy, but you can't expect a guy without connections to do well in the portal. 

[Dr Z]

On 11/2/2021 at 4:18 PM, zippypitt said:

Gossip on the street has this as Arth's final game. This came from a fairly credible source, but take it with a grain of salt.  

Your source is a good one. 

[dre22era]

I want a coach with Character

I want a coach with Swag

You my Boi Terry! #ThrowbackThursday

 

 

[zipsoutsider]

https://twitter.com/CoachRGarrett/status/1452117667159187458

@CoachRGarrett: Nobody’s having more fun than @CoachTBowden and the Warhawks! Another great win tonight! #TheBestIsOnTheBayou https://t.co/vetDXwZDfB https://t.co/Wc0a29iqXy

[clarkwgriswold]

1 hour ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

When Arth decided to build his program predominately with Freshmen, he had to know the beatings would come early and often. He also had to know in today's FBS world that AD's and fans don't wait 5-6 years for a winning record. I think he grossly underestimated either the talent required to win in the MAC, or his ability to recruit enough impactful Freshman. His outdated Freshman-first recruiting approach cost him.

 

The chips were stacked against him from the start, with a late hire. But he could have overcome that with some aggressive recruiting of JUCO and  P5 Transfer talent on the OL and DL.

 

I disagree that the Zips are now going to turn around and go backwards. We are 3-24 during Arth's tenure. That's already rock bottom. By comparison, Terry Bowden took over a winless L-M football program and has won 4 games this year.

 

Arth is a good person, and he'll land on his feet. But he proved he didn't know how to win at Akron. His approach netted 3 wins in 27 games. We need a coach that knows how to win at Akron. And for those who think it isn't possible, look at Kent. They have been worse than the Zips most of the past 20+ years. Until they somehow found a coach that could win at Kent.

 

I'm sure the kids presently in the Zips program are hungry to win. Hopefully the good ones stick around and see some quick success with the new coach.

 

Very well stated.

 

In very simple terms, Arth was not bringing in kids that could collectively compete on the MAC level.  I did not expect them to be world beaters in their first or second years but they should not be getting manhandled regularly in the third year of his tenure.  Watching the games it was clear that the Zips were just not as talented as their opponents, not just less experienced.  Add to that the basic technique breakdowns we saw weekly and you had a near irreparable mess.  I want to watch a UA game where I don't yell to my wife "look at this kid, he's doing what I taught 6 year old flag football players not to do!"

 

Character does not have to equal less talented.

[dre22era]

[Captain Kangaroo]

I think November 4th is "Dre Christmas."

 

 

[dre22era]

[Spin]

3 hours ago, Captain Kangaroo said:

When Arth decided to build his program predominately with Freshmen, he had to know the beatings would come early and often. He also had to know in today's FBS world that AD's and fans don't wait 5-6 years for a winning record. I think he grossly underestimated either the talent required to win in the MAC, or his ability to recruit enough impactful Freshman. His outdated Freshman-first recruiting approach cost him.

 

The chips were stacked against him from the start, with a late hire. But he could have overcome that with some aggressive recruiting of JUCO and  P5 Transfer talent on the OL and DL.

 

I disagree that the Zips are now going to turn around and go backwards. We are 3-24 during Arth's tenure. That's already rock bottom. By comparison, Terry Bowden took over a winless L-M football program and has won 4 games this year.

 

Arth is a good person, and he'll land on his feet. But he proved he didn't know how to win at Akron. His approach netted 3 wins in 27 games. We need a coach that knows how to win at Akron. And for those who think it isn't possible, look at Kent. They have been worse than the Zips most of the past 20+ years. Until they somehow found a coach that could win at Kent.

 

I'm sure the kids presently in the Zips program are hungry to win. Hopefully the good ones stick around and see some quick success with the new coach.

Im out of likes, but man this post deserves one…

[GP1]

A younger version of Rich Rodriguez would be good. While WVU isn't an urban campus, he brought in players he could win with at a school that isn't easy to win at. He related to the players, they responded to him and they won. He brought in a lot of tough kids, many marginal, and got them to work together. 

 

The coach has to fit the culture of the school, not change the culture of the school or football program. 

[Hilltopper]

Arth hung himself with his refusal to use the transfer portal to build the team. He didn't need to go all out like Bowden and sign 40 guys. But 10-15 would have been a big help.

[ewbrooman1]

Maybe we should first ask ourselves what we are looking for in a search committee? I hope they have some people who have actually conducted a successful coaching search. Our new AD may be a smart guy, but he's never been part of a search since none of the schools he's worked at have even had a football program.

Edited November 5, 2021 by ewbrooman1

[Spin]

20 hours ago, Zippyroo said:

Totally agree with you.  I my mind this is a sad day for Akron football cause it locks us in for another 2-3 years of rebuilding and being bottom dwellers in the MAC......

That’s what we were in for if we kept Coach Tom. Now we see how many of his recruits fit the new coaches system. We’re starting from scratch. Again.

[GJGood]

On 11/4/2021 at 1:54 PM, Captain Kangaroo said:

When Arth decided to build his program predominately with Freshmen, he had to know the beatings would come early and often. He also had to know in today's FBS world that AD's and fans don't wait 5-6 years for a winning record. I think he grossly underestimated either the talent required to win in the MAC, or his ability to recruit enough impactful Freshman. His outdated Freshman-first recruiting approach cost him.

 

The chips were stacked against him from the start, with a late hire. But he could have overcome that with some aggressive recruiting of JUCO and  P5 Transfer talent on the OL and DL.

 

I disagree that the Zips are now going to turn around and go backwards. We are 3-24 during Arth's tenure. That's already rock bottom. By comparison, Terry Bowden took over a winless L-M football program and has won 4 games this year.

 

Arth is a good person, and he'll land on his feet. But he proved he didn't know how to win at Akron. His approach netted 3 wins in 27 games. We need a coach that knows how to win at Akron. And for those who think it isn't possible, look at Kent. They have been worse than the Zips most of the past 20+ years. Until they somehow found a coach that could win at Kent.

 

I'm sure the kids presently in the Zips program are hungry to win. Hopefully the good ones stick around and see some quick success with the new coach.

 I appreciate your insight. I just feel like that proverbial “turning the corner” was almost upon us. You are right that he had to know his recruiting and roster composition methods may be more of an old fashioned (if 8-10 years ago can be called that) approach but I think that is also the way you build longer term success as opposed to one or two good seasons before dropping off the map again.
Being that every opponent is older and more experienced I think right about now is when the improvement would start to be expected. Looking at the last couple weeks I think we have started to see that. I think it was finally just starting to build in the direction they wanted. To me now does not seem like the time to pull the rug out from under the program and start over.
 

I know it’s hard to get past the 3-24 and I would have been for the move if that was the record after three years of rosters with his guys that were as experienced as the opponents we were playing. I just thought this program was building to be a top of the MAC team two years from now but was taking its lumps now was part of the learning needed to get there

[GP1]

12 minutes ago, GJGood said:

 I know it’s hard to get past the 3-24 and I would have been for the move if that was the record after three years of rosters with his guys that were as experienced as the opponents we were playing. I just thought this program was building to be a top of the MAC team two years from now but was taking its lumps now was part of the learning needed to get there

3-24 is going to turn into 3-26 over the next 3 weeks.

 

This is the reality. Arth wasn't building towards anything except at best a 4-5 win season 2 years from now. In reality, recruits would have started to get worse not better. Lots of decent players were going to leave just to have a chance to win the last year or two of their college careers. It's miserable to lose game after game. Arth and his staff have little respect in the high school coaching ranks and a couple more seasons of losing were only going to make that worse resulting in what would look like the end of the Faust era recruits. Arth was on a train to nowhere.

 

I know how bad fans want "the building process" to work, but college football simply isn't designed for slow builds. Slow builds are actually punished. It is designed for quick rebuilds and with the right coaches it can be rewarded. Look no further than Kent and somewhere like Michigan State. Akron is always behind the times.

[Blue & Gold]

53 minutes ago, GP1 said:

Arth and his staff have little respect in the high school coaching ranks...

You've mentioned this before.  Where do you get that?  And, why would a high school coach look down his nose at someone with Arth's football background?

[GP1]

28 minutes ago, Blue & Gold said:

You've mentioned this before.  Where do you get that?  And, why would a high school coach look down his nose at someone with Arth's football background?

Someone I am close with in central Ohio coaches high school football and has for a long time. Knows everyone in and around Franklin Co. People rolled their eyes at Arth's staff after leaving schools. Coaches looked at their early staff as little more than a D3 staff. First impressions are lasting impressions.  They simply weren't taken seriously by a large body of them and that matters in recruiting.  

[Blue & Gold]

10 minutes ago, GP1 said:

Someone I am close with in central Ohio coaches high school football and has for a long time. Knows everyone in and around Franklin Co. People rolled their eyes at Arth's staff after leaving schools. Coaches looked at their early staff as little more than a D3 staff. First impressions are lasting impressions.  They simply weren't taken seriously by a large body of them and that matters in recruiting.  

Thanks! (I’m out of Likes.)

[LoyalZIP]

12 minutes ago, GP1 said:

Someone I am close with in central Ohio coaches high school football and has for a long time. Knows everyone in and around Franklin Co. People rolled their eyes at Arth's staff after leaving schools. Coaches looked at their early staff as little more than a D3 staff. First impressions are lasting impressions.  They simply weren't taken seriously by a large body of them and that matters in recruiting.  

In all of the suck that this current staff has brought us in the last three years, I’m just now reminded of that initial staff, a few of which are still around. I believe 2 were poached from a horrid 2-10 Kent team and then Zagorski doesn’t belong in D1. Don’t get me started on Feeney. Gasser, Rodriguez, and the RB coach who left after a couple weeks for Troy whose name escapes me are the only ones who belonged out of the entire staff. Alex Kline is supposed to be the greatest young football mind in college football and he’s a joke. Anyone around this group from the very early stages could see this was a disaster from the start. Too many arrogant John Carroll guys. D3 and arrogant is not a winning combo. 

[blueandgold]

35 minutes ago, LoyalZIP said:

In all of the suck that this current staff has brought us in the last three years, I’m just now reminded of that initial staff, a few of which are still around. I believe 2 were poached from a horrid 2-10 Kent team and then Zagorski doesn’t belong in D1. Don’t get me started on Feeney. Gasser, Rodriguez, and the RB coach who left after a couple weeks for Troy whose name escapes me are the only ones who belonged out of the entire staff. Alex Kline is supposed to be the greatest young football mind in college football and he’s a joke. Anyone around this group from the very early stages could see this was a disaster from the start. Too many arrogant John Carroll guys. D3 and arrogant is not a winning combo. 

Feeney is Milwee...only on the defensive side of the ball!