Conference Realignment

[zipsrule]

Six members of Conference USA have submitted applications to join the AAC.  If they get approved, what happens to the remaining members of Conference USA?  Does the MAC have any interest in adding two of them - say Marshall, Middle Tennessee State or Western Kentucky?

 

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/32432496/six-schools-officially-apply-join-american-athletic-conference

 

 

[NWAkron]

3 hours ago, zipsrule said:

Six members of Conference USA have submitted applications to join the AAC.  If they get approved, what happens to the remaining members of Conference USA?  Does the MAC have any interest in adding two of them - say Marshall, Middle Tennessee State or Western Kentucky?

 

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/32432496/six-schools-officially-apply-join-american-athletic-conference

 

 

That would be awesome.

[GP1]

Cincinnati, Houston, BYU and UCF heading to the Big 12 slams the door shut on meaningful conference realignment. Now the discussion needs to be about college football realignment. The foundation for the separation of P5 and G5 is complete.  This is a great thing for both. Let sanity prevail. 

[GoZips86]

7 hours ago, NWAkron said:

That would be awesome.

 

Agreed!! 

[Blue & Gold]

Marshall is a no-brainer.  I'd love for the Herd to be back in the MAC.

 

I'd also be for adding WKU.  The Hilltoppers fit geographically, have great facilities, and have the 2nd coolest mascot in sports.

 

I'd also like to add James Madison and Illinois State.

 

That'd bring us to 16 teams.   

[ZippyRulz]

WKU-Zips should be an instant hoops rivalry.

 

[Blue & Gold]

17 minutes ago, ZippyRulz said:

WKU-Zips should be an instant hoops rivalry.

 

💯   JMU as well.  

 

*Plus JMU has men's soccer.  (I don't know how many of you visit the soccer forum, but the lack of MAC schools fielding men's soccer teams is an issue.)  

[Section210Zip]

JMU has the facilities to come to the MAC. They have a beautiful stadium. It's layout is a little different with how they expanded over the end zone. The campus sits right off the highway and other than the tolls in PA, its a nice drive. 

 

I'm not too familiar with Illinois State's facilities but they would have to invest in their stadium to at least meet FBS attendance requirements. At least how it is written now. 

 

In looking at Illinois State i was reminded of this and had to throw up so thank you for that. 

[NWAkron]

1 hour ago, Blue & Gold said:

💯   JMU as well.  

 

*Plus JMU has men's soccer.  (I don't know how many of you visit the soccer forum, but the lack of MAC schools fielding men's soccer teams is an issue.)  

James Madison also has Humpty Hitchens.

[dealertire66]

Who's to say the Conf USA would not take 6 teams from the MAC now???

[Captain Kangaroo]

39 minutes ago, NWAkron said:

James Madison also has Humpty Hitchens.

Glad he got his 11th year of eligibility granted! 🥚🎧🎵

[Zipmeister]

6 teams from conference USA to the AAC and 2 more to the MAC would leave conference USA with 6 teams and ripe for a merger with the Sun Belt.

 

[LZIp]

52 minutes ago, dealertire66 said:

Who's to say the Conf USA would not take 6 teams from the MAC now???

I don't know why any MAC school would want to join the C-USA. Our TV deal appears to pay twice as much as theirs (without considering the impact in the future with the amount of their big-market schools being poached), competition certainly isn't a leg up, and travel distance increases.

 

Love it or hate it, the one thing the MAC has going for it is stability with all of the schools so close to each other geographically. 

[clarkwgriswold]

51 minutes ago, LZIp said:

the one thing the MAC has going for it is stability with all of the schools so close to each other geographically. 

 

....and Tuesday night football.

[Let'sGoZips94]

The main post in this thread contains the following information...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have obtained the Form 990s for the G5 conferences for their fiscal years ending June 30, 2019, and June 30, 2020. Obviously, June 30, 2021 Form 990s have not yet been filed.

In terms of dollars, the AAC ranks as the clear top dog in the G5, with the Sun Belt Conference as the poor man.

Total revenues of each conference are set forth below.

AAC 2019 $73,203,230
MWC 2019 $57,058,330
CUSA 2019 $44,250,642
MAC 2019 $30,848,489
SBC 2019 $33,072,881

AAC 2020 $111,278,729
MWC 2020 $ (not available)
CUSA 2020 $40,861,629
MAC 2020 $32,241,698
SBC 2020 $31,584,812

Revenues from TV/media rights are interesting. These amounts are included in the total revenues above.

AAC 2019 $22,726,100
MWC 2019 $14,232,915
CUSA 2019 $6,968,263
MAC 2019 $8,639,734
SBC 2019 $3,920,523

AAC 2020 $43,988,700
MWC 2020 $ (not available)
CUSA 2020 $6,440,156
MAC 2020 $9,186,590
SBC 2020 $2,250,000

By far, the largest expense amounts for each conference are the grants and distributions they make to their member institutions. The total grant/distribution amounts set forth below are net of any membership dues paid to the conferences. The parenthetical amount represents an average grant/distribution amount for each conference member, although these individual amounts can vary widely depending on the formulas used by each conference to hand out the money.

AAC 2019 $49,635,911 ($4,136,326)
MWC 2019 $42,883,422 ($3,898,493)
CUSA 2019 $27,876,250 ($1,991,161)
MAC 2019 $24,116,351 ($2,009,696)
SBC 2019 $17,959,464 ($1,496,622)

AAC 2020 $65,385,468 ($5,029,651)
MWC 2020 $ (not available)
CUSA 2020 $26,620,665 ($1,901,476)
MAC 2020 $24,530,154 ($2,044,180)
SBC 2020 $14,882,160 ($1,240,180)

Below are the highest payouts to an individual conference member in each year.

AAC 2019 $7,476,770 (UCF)
MWC 2019 $ (not available)
CUSA 2019 $2,921,341 (Middle Tennessee)
MAC 2019 $2,393,714 (Toledo)
SBC 2019 $1,621,356 (Georgia St.)

AAC 2020 $8,656,466 (Memphis)
MWC 2020 $ (not available)
CUSA 2020 $2,739,105 (Marshall)
MAC 2020 $2,386,989 (Buffalo)
SBC 2020 $1,386,608 (Georgia St.)

Finally, one way of measuring the financial health of an organization is to look at its net worth - calculated by determining how much its total assets exceed its total liabilities. This calculation taken from the Form 990 of each conference reveals the following:

AAC 2020 $43,315,213
MWC 2020 $ (not available, but was $7,984,041 in 2019)
CUSA 2020 $8,748,914
MAC 2020 $6,431,401
SBC 2020 $6,457,663

One could conclude from all this financial data that a possible move by Marshall to the AAC might be expected to eventually increase revenues by $2-3 million per year on average, or by as much as $5 million per year if Marshall's teams performed exceedingly well in football and/or men's basketball. Conversely, a possible move by Marshall to the SBC might be expected to decrease revenues by $1 to 1.5 million per year. One might question whether the SBC generates enough money to feed an additional mouth or two through expansion, at least without identifying additional sources of revenue through TV/media rights or other means. Perhaps the recent SBC's TV/media contract extension with ESPN announced in July will generate additional dollars, though none were mentioned in the press release. A move by Marshall to the MAC would be, at best, a lateral one financially.

Of course, all of this becomes even more complicated if CUSA teams start dropping off (UAB/FAU to the AAC? ODU to the Atlantic 10?). After the AAC, I do believe CUSA is the most unstable conference. The idea of forming a new conference sounds great, but is not very practical given the fact it would not have access to the football playoffs, would not have access to an auto berth in the NCAA basketball tournaments, and would not have any established TV/media revenue. Getting an additional auto berth in basketball only takes money away from P5 at-large berth contenders, so good luck getting that approved by the NCAA. It would be difficult for any school to abandon its conference affiliation for a new conference venture given this level of uncertainty.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Another interesting post from that thread...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the problem with numbers and not up to date numbers at that.

AAC will have to redo their contract immediately to the worse unless they get the MWC teams that ESPN covets. It's why they are mentioned as targets.

The MAC will remain the same

CUSA is going to lose as many as 4-5 teams, maybe more and one of them will be the ratings leader most years. Their money is going to drop, significantly.

The Sunbelt has a raise already not reflected in those numbers. Not AAC current money but much better than what is there for the last 2 years. And ESPN has told them there is more available to them if they get a few teams from CUSA that ESPN covets.

If the MWC stands pat they will be unchanged and may in fact lose revenue depending on who the Sunbelt adds and who the AAC can lure over. Either one can drop their status from solid #2 to #3 or worse.

Conferences that can add teams that ESPN doesn't control but would like to are going to get more money from them to cover the cost of those teams. It saves them from having to pay for a whole new conference. They're picking a la cart who they want and encouraging the AAC and Sunbelt to get them. ESPN is going to get UAB and Marshall, either way. I have no idea who they're taking after that. But rest assured CUSA is cooked and will be squarely at the bottom of that money list in 2 years.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I've always thought of the MAC as inferior to C-USA. That mindset has probably been due for an update, as it stems from the days of C-USA having its now-AAC members. The numbers above show the MAC and Sun Belt as superior to C-USA TV revenue wise. The Sun Belt has done an excellent job at growing in a relatively short period of time. The MAC, on the other hand, has taken steps backwards in my eyes. The height of the MAC, talent & relevancy wise, was the 90s/early 00s, when both basketball and football were consistently producing professional star talent AND making runs on the National stage in both football & basketball. Since then, the MAC hasn't made too much noise. Their marketing strategy is a mixture of mid-00s graphics and mid-2010s at the height of Twitter (#MACtion). Rarely are they ever "ahead of the game". The very unpopular weeknight games on ESPN probably has something to do with the higher TV contract; it doesn't sound like many schools in other conferences were lining up for that opportunity, which could mean a hard sell to other schools to join the MAC. I don't know if there's enough money to spread among 5, G5 conferences. I could see 3-4 non-P5 conferences remaining when all is said and done. I also don't believe the P5 re-alignment is done. The Big 10 and SEC are FAR superior in TV revenue to the ACC, Big 12, and PAC 12. I think we could see several P5 schools switch conferences (WVU to the Big Ten, for example), which would create more opportunities for change at the non-P5 level. 

 

I've wanted Akron to get out of the MAC for YEARS now. I think the leadership at the top of the MAC is pee-poor. However, adding new blood like MTSU, WKU, Marshall (new, old blood), etc., would make remaining in the MAC more enticing. 

 

So the question becomes: how open and aggressive will the MAC be in trying to obtain new members?

[zipsoutsider]

Marshall and Southern Miss are joining the SBC. I was always surprised Marshall wasn't already there.

[Zipmeister]

7 minutes ago, zipsoutsider said:

Marshall and Southern Miss are joining the SBC. I was always surprised Marshall wasn't already there.

 

Source?

[Let'sGoZips94]

11 minutes ago, zipsoutsider said:

Marshall and Southern Miss are joining the SBC. I was always surprised Marshall wasn't already there.

 

 

RIP C-USA. I'd imagine the MAC expanding is imminent at this point. 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Let'sGoZips94

[Zipmeister]

1 hour ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

The main post in this thread contains the following information...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have obtained the Form 990s for the G5 conferences for their fiscal years ending June 30, 2019, and June 30, 2020. Obviously, June 30, 2021 Form 990s have not yet been filed.

In terms of dollars, the AAC ranks as the clear top dog in the G5, with the Sun Belt Conference as the poor man.

Total revenues of each conference are set forth below.

AAC 2019 $73,203,230
MWC 2019 $57,058,330
CUSA 2019 $44,250,642
MAC 2019 $30,848,489
SBC 2019 $33,072,881

AAC 2020 $111,278,729
MWC 2020 $ (not available)
CUSA 2020 $40,861,629
MAC 2020 $32,241,698
SBC 2020 $31,584,812

Revenues from TV/media rights are interesting. These amounts are included in the total revenues above.

AAC 2019 $22,726,100
MWC 2019 $14,232,915
CUSA 2019 $6,968,263
MAC 2019 $8,639,734
SBC 2019 $3,920,523

AAC 2020 $43,988,700
MWC 2020 $ (not available)
CUSA 2020 $6,440,156
MAC 2020 $9,186,590
SBC 2020 $2,250,000

By far, the largest expense amounts for each conference are the grants and distributions they make to their member institutions. The total grant/distribution amounts set forth below are net of any membership dues paid to the conferences. The parenthetical amount represents an average grant/distribution amount for each conference member, although these individual amounts can vary widely depending on the formulas used by each conference to hand out the money.

AAC 2019 $49,635,911 ($4,136,326)
MWC 2019 $42,883,422 ($3,898,493)
CUSA 2019 $27,876,250 ($1,991,161)
MAC 2019 $24,116,351 ($2,009,696)
SBC 2019 $17,959,464 ($1,496,622)

AAC 2020 $65,385,468 ($5,029,651)
MWC 2020 $ (not available)
CUSA 2020 $26,620,665 ($1,901,476)
MAC 2020 $24,530,154 ($2,044,180)
SBC 2020 $14,882,160 ($1,240,180)

Below are the highest payouts to an individual conference member in each year.

AAC 2019 $7,476,770 (UCF)
MWC 2019 $ (not available)
CUSA 2019 $2,921,341 (Middle Tennessee)
MAC 2019 $2,393,714 (Toledo)
SBC 2019 $1,621,356 (Georgia St.)

AAC 2020 $8,656,466 (Memphis)
MWC 2020 $ (not available)
CUSA 2020 $2,739,105 (Marshall)
MAC 2020 $2,386,989 (Buffalo)
SBC 2020 $1,386,608 (Georgia St.)

Finally, one way of measuring the financial health of an organization is to look at its net worth - calculated by determining how much its total assets exceed its total liabilities. This calculation taken from the Form 990 of each conference reveals the following:

AAC 2020 $43,315,213
MWC 2020 $ (not available, but was $7,984,041 in 2019)
CUSA 2020 $8,748,914
MAC 2020 $6,431,401
SBC 2020 $6,457,663

One could conclude from all this financial data that a possible move by Marshall to the AAC might be expected to eventually increase revenues by $2-3 million per year on average, or by as much as $5 million per year if Marshall's teams performed exceedingly well in football and/or men's basketball. Conversely, a possible move by Marshall to the SBC might be expected to decrease revenues by $1 to 1.5 million per year. One might question whether the SBC generates enough money to feed an additional mouth or two through expansion, at least without identifying additional sources of revenue through TV/media rights or other means. Perhaps the recent SBC's TV/media contract extension with ESPN announced in July will generate additional dollars, though none were mentioned in the press release. A move by Marshall to the MAC would be, at best, a lateral one financially.

Of course, all of this becomes even more complicated if CUSA teams start dropping off (UAB/FAU to the AAC? ODU to the Atlantic 10?). After the AAC, I do believe CUSA is the most unstable conference. The idea of forming a new conference sounds great, but is not very practical given the fact it would not have access to the football playoffs, would not have access to an auto berth in the NCAA basketball tournaments, and would not have any established TV/media revenue. Getting an additional auto berth in basketball only takes money away from P5 at-large berth contenders, so good luck getting that approved by the NCAA. It would be difficult for any school to abandon its conference affiliation for a new conference venture given this level of uncertainty.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Another interesting post from that thread...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the problem with numbers and not up to date numbers at that.

AAC will have to redo their contract immediately to the worse unless they get the MWC teams that ESPN covets. It's why they are mentioned as targets.

The MAC will remain the same

CUSA is going to lose as many as 4-5 teams, maybe more and one of them will be the ratings leader most years. Their money is going to drop, significantly.

The Sunbelt has a raise already not reflected in those numbers. Not AAC current money but much better than what is there for the last 2 years. And ESPN has told them there is more available to them if they get a few teams from CUSA that ESPN covets.

If the MWC stands pat they will be unchanged and may in fact lose revenue depending on who the Sunbelt adds and who the AAC can lure over. Either one can drop their status from solid #2 to #3 or worse.

Conferences that can add teams that ESPN doesn't control but would like to are going to get more money from them to cover the cost of those teams. It saves them from having to pay for a whole new conference. They're picking a la cart who they want and encouraging the AAC and Sunbelt to get them. ESPN is going to get UAB and Marshall, either way. I have no idea who they're taking after that. But rest assured CUSA is cooked and will be squarely at the bottom of that money list in 2 years.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I've always thought of the MAC as inferior to C-USA. That mindset has probably been due for an update, as it stems from the days of C-USA having its now-AAC members. The numbers above show the MAC and Sun Belt as superior to C-USA TV revenue wise. The Sun Belt has done an excellent job at growing in a relatively short period of time. The MAC, on the other hand, has taken steps backwards in my eyes. The height of the MAC, talent & relevancy wise, was the 90s/early 00s, when both basketball and football were consistently producing professional star talent AND making runs on the National stage in both football & basketball. Since then, the MAC hasn't made too much noise. Their marketing strategy is a mixture of mid-00s graphics and mid-2010s at the height of Twitter (#MACtion). Rarely are they ever "ahead of the game". The very unpopular weeknight games on ESPN probably has something to do with the higher TV contract; it doesn't sound like many schools in other conferences were lining up for that opportunity, which could mean a hard sell to other schools to join the MAC. I don't know if there's enough money to spread among 5, G5 conferences. I could see 3-4 non-P5 conferences remaining when all is said and done. I also don't believe the P5 re-alignment is done. The Big 10 and SEC are FAR superior in TV revenue to the ACC, Big 12, and PAC 12. I think we could see several P5 schools switch conferences (WVU to the Big Ten, for example), which would create more opportunities for change at the non-P5 level. 

 

I've wanted Akron to get out of the MAC for YEARS now. I think the leadership at the top of the MAC is pee-poor. However, adding new blood like MTSU, WKU, Marshall (new, old blood), etc., would make remaining in the MAC more enticing. 

 

So the question becomes: how open and aggressive will the MAC be in trying to obtain new members?

 

Unfortunately for the Mountaineers, their academic situation does not meet the elitist standards of the B10.

[Blue & Gold]

20 minutes ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

 

 

RIP C-USA. I'd imagine the MAC expanding is imminent at this point. 

 

You'd think so.  Be proactive.

 

I'd love to have seen Marshall back in the MAC, but, whatever. Does it really matter?

 

That increases the likelihood that WKU would accept an invitation.  

 

I'm still for bringing in JMU.  

[zippy5]

WKU and JMU/ODU would be great imo

[Blue & Gold]

Now word on the street is the Sun Belt is also interested in brining in JMU & ODU.  Unfortunately, they would fit geographically and make sense as a "couple."  The Sun Belt is kicking our ass.  On ZN.o we've been talking about JMU to the MAC for a few years now.  They should already be a member school.  Why is MAC leadership NEVER proactive? 😡😡😡

 

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Blue & Gold

[GP1]

54 minutes ago, Blue & Gold said:

Why is MAC leadership NEVER proactive? 😡😡😡

 

 

I agree, but expanding the league isn't being proactive. It would make more sense to eliminate a team or two which would make the league more competitive. Better competition would make it more compelling. Making it more compelling would drive up interest. Driving up interest would lead to more people at games. More people at games is using MAC schools in a way that benefits the players, students, alumni, fans and general communities around those schools. That should be the goal. 

 

I saw ODU play at Wake Forest this year. The only reason I went is because I thought it would be one of the three games Wake won this year, but that's another topic. Bottom line, Akron vs Toledo is far more compelling than Akron vs ODU. ODU is less interesting than Temple and I can't believe I just typed that, but it's true. 

 

G5 schools don't need to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic. They need to get off the sinking ship. Lots of people survived the sinking of the titanic. G5 schools can survive the changing landscape of college football, but not through hysterical conference jumping. Let's get off the ship. 

[LZIp]

1 hour ago, Blue & Gold said:

Now word on the street is the Sun Belt is also interested in brining in JMU & ODU.  Unfortunately, they would fit geographically and make sense as a "couple."  The Sun Belt is kicking our ass.  On ZN.o we've been talking about JMU to the MAC for a few years now.  They should already be a member school.  Why is MAC leadership NEVER proactive? 😡😡😡

 

 

I agree. We are just sitting back and seemingly not doing anything. The MAC is either letting a chance to survive or improve the conference pass by. Feels like we are just falling further and further behind. I'd like for somebody to get the Commish's thoughts on the current landscape.

24 minutes ago, GP1 said:

I agree, but expanding the league isn't being proactive. It would make more sense to eliminate a team or two which would make the league more competitive. Better competition would make it more compelling. Making it more compelling would drive up interest. Driving up interest would lead to more people at games. More people at games is using MAC schools in a way that benefits the players, students, alumni, fans and general communities around those schools. That should be the goal. 

 

I saw ODU play at Wake Forest this year. The only reason I went is because I thought it would be one of the three games Wake won this year, but that's another topic. Bottom line, Akron vs Toledo is far more compelling than Akron vs ODU. ODU is less interesting than Temple and I can't believe I just typed that, but it's true. 

 

G5 schools don't need to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic. They need to get off the sinking ship. Lots of people survived the sinking of the titanic. G5 schools can survive the changing landscape of college football, but not through hysterical conference jumping. Let's get off the ship. 

What do you mean by get off the ship? Akron shouldn't be doing anything by ourselves. If you want to talk spring football, we just saw this past spring how that would work (not good).

Edited October 20, 2021 by LZIp

[GP1]

16 minutes ago, LZIp said:

 

What do you mean by get off the ship? Akron shouldn't be doing anything by ourselves. If you want to talk spring football, we just saw this past spring how that would work (not good).

G5 schools need to get away from P5 schools. 

 

Agreed, we shouldn't be doing anything ourselves. We should do something with every other G5 school.  Something bigger than schools jumping conference. Jumping conferences at this point is Mickey Mouse. 

 

Spring football may be the only way to save G5 schools from the athletic directors who work for them.