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Enrique Freeman


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5 hours ago, ZipsBurgh said:

Richaun Holmes was drafted early 2nd round and is going into his 10th NBA season. Do we think that’s had any effect on Bowling Green?

 

BG wasn't good in the first place. Having an NBA player isn't going to turn a mediocre program around. But it can certainly give a boost to an already-successful program that is right on the brink of getting to the next level.

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21 hours ago, 1981 grad said:

That being said, our best opportunity to win an NCAA game was against UCLA when Freeman was a 2nd year student.  Considering Freeman's talent, Groce failed to build a better team around him his senior year.  He had three big misses in Prather, Thornton and Scott.  He just needed a point guard that could drive and shoot.  Tribble was a 2 guard playing the point and Ali was a wing playing the two.  This team never hit the next gear that we were all expecting at the beginning of the season.  I really hope to see Freeman in the NBA!!  


prather was a redshirt freshman, he was never going to be that impactful on a team with 5 seniors. Scott and Thornton weren’t put on the team to be stars, they were there to help the stars, Enrique, Tribble, and Ali

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On 6/20/2024 at 4:02 PM, NWAkron said:

"Failed" isn't a word I would use to describe "John Groce."

We will have to agree to disagree.  This team shot 32.2% from three which ranked 262 of 351 teams.  Freeman shot .370 so we would probably drop another 10 spots without his 3 point shooting.  Thornton shot 32% from three and Scott was 30%.  We needed shooters to compliment Freeman's inside game.  As I have stated many times, Groce is a great coach but even great coaches fail on occasion.  Considering Freeman's talent that is now being noticed nationwide, I would deem success to have been winning our first NCAA game or at least coming as close to a win as we did against UCLA.

Edited by 1981 grad
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3 hours ago, 1981 grad said:

We will have to agree to disagree.  This team shot 32.2% from three which ranked 262 of 351 teams.  Freeman shot .370 so we would probably drop another 10 spots without his 3 point shooting.  Thornton shot 32% from three and Scott was 30%.  We needed shooters to compliment Freeman's inside game.  As I have stated many times, Groce is a great coach but even great coaches fail on occasion.  Considering Freeman's talent that is now being noticed nationwide, I would deem success to have been winning our first NCAA game or at least coming as close to a win as we did against UCLA.

This team just didn't have that dynamic guard player that you've seen on Groce best teams (Cooper, LCJ, Castaneda). Even when you have a player as good as Freeman, it's hard to win at the collegiate level without elite guard play.

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6 hours ago, 1981 grad said:

We will have to agree to disagree.  This team shot 32.2% from three which ranked 262 of 351 teams.  Freeman shot .370 so we would probably drop another 10 spots without his 3 point shooting.  Thornton shot 32% from three and Scott was 30%.  We needed shooters to compliment Freeman's inside game.  As I have stated many times, Groce is a great coach but even great coaches fail on occasion.  Considering Freeman's talent that is now being noticed nationwide, I would deem success to have been winning our first NCAA game or at least coming as close to a win as we did against UCLA.

I put more on the players than Groce.  None of the guys brought in to be perimeter players stepped up even though Groce's offense got them all kinds of open looks. 

 

Thornton, Scott, Dawson, Tavari were all disappointments from deep even though they got open shots every game (usually wide open).  Prather was not expected to contribute and only got minutes because the rest of the aforementioned players were so inconsistent that Groce was trying any lineup he could find to generate some offense outside of the main core.  

Edited by Zip JD
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21 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

This team just didn't have that dynamic guard player that you've seen on Groce best teams (Cooper, LCJ, Castaneda). Even when you have a player as good as Freeman, it's hard to win at the collegiate level without elite guard play.

Agreed.  None of our guards took advantage of all the double and sometimes triple teams that were thrown at Freeman.  He was hardly a black hole.  Freeman would kick it back out in a heartbeat when guys were open.  LCJ would have been in heaven playing with Freeman this past season.   

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5 hours ago, Zip JD said:

I put more on the players than Groce.  None of the guys brought in to be perimeter players stepped up even though Groce's offense got them all kinds of open looks. 

 

Thornton, Scott, Dawson, Tavari were all disappointments from deep even though they got open shots every game (usually wide open).  Prather was not expected to contribute and only got minutes because the rest of the aforementioned players were so inconsistent that Groce was trying any lineup he could find to generate some offense outside of the main core.  

 

He picked the players, though. Your job as a coach is to find players who will work well in your system. I certainly think saying he failed is far too strong, but I don't think his staff is without blame for so many misses in the backcourt. It also isn't lost on me how different the last few years could've been in a young Enrique Freeman never walked into the open tryout.

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8 hours ago, Zippy87 said:

 

He picked the players, though. Your job as a coach is to find players who will work well in your system. I certainly think saying he failed is far too strong, but I don't think his staff is without blame for so many misses in the backcourt. It also isn't lost on me how different the last few years could've been in a young Enrique Freeman never walked into the open tryout.

I just don't know how people can say he failed when even with all the shooting issues he won the MACC again.

 

Fair point on all the recent backcourt misses but Groce is the one that gave Freeman a shot and developed him.  He also got the maximum out of Tribble who could barely hit a layup when he arrived.  Think back to Ali Ali's first year and see how much he developed as well.  Look at Ali's dismal time in Butler and see what he got out of him.  Groce brought in Hunter who turned out to be our best 3 pt shooter.  Nate looks like he will be a force as well.   I just think that Groce shouldn't take all the blame for underperforming players without getting some of the credit for all the ones that hit.  

 

No disagreement that Groce is ultimately the one who has the responsibility for the wins and loses but if Thornton, Scott, Dawson and/or Tavari could have hit shots with any consistency it would have made a huge difference.  They all have talent, but it never showed for more than brief moments.  Groce got those guys all kinds of wide-open shots all year but unfortunately, he can't shoot it for them.

 

Last question, what would a run of the mill MAC coach have done with this team?   

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We're expecting a pretty high "batting average" from a guy that's had the best basketball program in the MAC since he settled in at Akron.  Not very recruiting class brings an LCJ or X.  In a couple of years we'll be back to lamenting the absence of a big like Enrique.

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On 6/23/2024 at 7:39 AM, Zip JD said:

Last question, what would a run of the mill MAC coach have done with this team?   

 

I think when evaluating Groce, you have to kind of separate coaching vs recruiting. I don't have many complaints on coaching. I do think there there have been some misses in recruiting. These are all certainly debatable.

 

Hits

 

Loren Cristian Jackson

Tyler Cheese

Channel Banks

Malcolm Duvivier

Xeyrius Williams

Ali Ali

Enrique Freeman (some luck here, though)

Mikal Dawson

Xavier Castaneda

Greg Tribble

Aziz Bandaogo

Trendon Hankerson

Sammy Hunter

 

Neutral

 

Shammah Scott

Nate Johnson

Tavari Johnson

Deng Riak

Bryan Trimble

Michael Wynn

Maishe Dailey

Jermaine Marshall (became a solid player elsewhere)

 

Misses

 

Mark Kostelac

Cameron Reece

Taylor Currie

Tre Edwards

Garvin Clarke

KJ Walton

Eric Hester

Sekou Kalle

Kobe Mitchell

Amani Lyles (prove me wrong, Amani!)

Kaleb Thornton

Ryan Prather Jr.

Darrion Baker

Khadim Gueye

 

Edited by Zippy87
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4 hours ago, Zippy87 said:

 

I think when evaluating Groce, you have to kind of separate coaching vs recruiting. I don't have many complaints on coaching. I do think there there have been some misses in recruiting. These are all certainly debatable.

 

Hits

 

Loren Cristian Jackson

Tyler Cheese

Channel Banks

Malcolm Duvivier

Xeyrius Williams

Ali Ali

Enrique Freeman (some luck here, though)

Mikal Dawson

Xavier Castaneda

Greg Tribble

Aziz Bandaogo

Trendon Hankerson

Sammy Hunter

 

Neutral

 

Shammah Scott

Nate Johnson

Tavari Johnson

Deng Riak

Bryan Trimble

Michael Wynn

Maishe Dailey

Jermaine Marshall (became a solid player elsewhere)

 

Misses

 

Mark Kostelac

Cameron Reece

Taylor Currie

Tre Edwards

Garvin Clarke

KJ Walton

Eric Hester

Sekou Kalle

Kobe Mitchell

Amani Lyles (prove me wrong, Amani!)

Kaleb Thornton

Ryan Prather Jr.

Darrion Baker

 

Great list!!.  I give Groce a pass on Kostelac as that was his first year and he had little options in finding a big man.  Also, your misses must include Khadim Gueye, the guy who punched out Kostelac.  Also, the book is still out on Tavari, Scott and Nate and they still could be hits or misses.  Only time will tell.  

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