Zips Basketball- Looking Back to 22-23/Looking Forward to 23-24

[NWAkron]

Another way of looking at it: this is a one bid conference with 4 or 5 quality programs.  How does Groce stop Toledo from becoming the next Buffalo who runs over the Zips for 3 or 4 years.  Looks like Kent's team is mostly seniors...tonight is their moment.  Toledo only loses Milner and Shumate.  

[clarkwgriswold]

It's not out of the realm of possibility for Clarke and Tavari to be on the court together but if you do the 3 and 4 better be big scorers.  Tribble's not that.

[LZIp]

Tavari showed more as a true freshman than anyone I've ever seen as a Zip in the Groce era. Obviously he hit a freshman wall he couldn't quote seem to get over. Maybe he won't be ready to do what LCJ and X did in their upper classman/final seasons as a true sophomore (and that wouldn't be a fair standard to hold him to), but I sure as hell hope he stays.

 

In addition to Clarke "being what he is", he also isn't consistent enough at making positive plays outside of his limitations like Tribble is. He has some games where he makes a good impact, but seems like its empty or negative minutes more often than not.

Edited March 11, 2023 by LZIp

[RowdyZip]

Toledo: 41.0Milner/Shumate 32.1 ppg (37.4%), 10.6 rpg (30.9%), 3.2 apg (21.1%)

Kent: (Carry, Jacobs, Thomas, Payton)

47 ppg (61.3%), 18.9 rpg (53.2%), 9.6 apg (78.0%)

Akron: (Hankerson, Castañeda) 30.6 ppg (41.0%), 8.2 rpg (23.0%), 5.1 apg (38.1%).

 

On paper, assuming Enrique is back, Toledo and Akron are in a similar position for what they lose from seniors. Kent is most likely to see a step back out of the top 3.

 

Of course, I did this on my phone with a lot of mental math so I could be way off. Also, don't believe OU loses much and had a pair on the All-Freshman team.

[LZIp]

Just now, RowdyZip said:

Toledo: 41.0Milner/Shumate 32.1 ppg (37.4%), 10.6 rpg (30.9%), 3.2 apg (21.1%)

Kent: (Carry, Jacobs, Thomas, Payton)

47 ppg (61.3%), 18.9 rpg (53.2%), 9.6 apg (78.0%)

Akron: (Hankerson, Castañeda) 30.6 ppg (41.0%), 8.2 rpg (23.0%), 5.1 apg (38.1%).

 

On paper, assuming Enrique is back, Toledo and Akron are in a similar position for what they lose from seniors. Kent is most likely to see a step back out of the top 3.

 

Of course, I did this on my phone with a lot of mental math so I could be way off. Also, don't believe OU loses much and had a pair on the All-Freshman team.

Yeah, we'll see what we can do in the offseason, but on paper right now Toledo, OU, and Ball St look like the top 3 next year in no particular order. Kent has a lot of productivity to replace as you mention.

[monrowe]

2 hours ago, NWAkron said:

Very hard to get a good read on Tavari.  I would like him to stay.  Like others have said, LCJ and X took a season to get going but Tavari doesn't seem engaged in the team.

 

As for Clarke: Akron has one guard who can't shoot or make a lay up: Tribble.  Do the Zips need two?

Tribble can not dribble and he plays like a six foot one power forward.I think he should tryout for the zips football team that would free up a scholarship.Tribble is a liability too many turnovers with him.

[NWAkron]

Just now, monrowe said:

Tribble can not dribble and he plays like a six foot one power forward.I think he should tryout for the zips football team that would free up a scholarship.Tribble is a liability too many turnovers with him.

Tribble has too many turnovers?

[kreed5120]

2 hours ago, RowdyZip said:

Toledo: 41.0Milner/Shumate 32.1 ppg (37.4%), 10.6 rpg (30.9%), 3.2 apg (21.1%)

Kent: (Carry, Jacobs, Thomas, Payton)

47 ppg (61.3%), 18.9 rpg (53.2%), 9.6 apg (78.0%)

Akron: (Hankerson, Castañeda) 30.6 ppg (41.0%), 8.2 rpg (23.0%), 5.1 apg (38.1%).

 

On paper, assuming Enrique is back, Toledo and Akron are in a similar position for what they lose from seniors. Kent is most likely to see a step back out of the top 3.

 

Of course, I did this on my phone with a lot of mental math so I could be way off. Also, don't believe OU loses much and had a pair on the All-Freshman team.

Boals is a good coach. I'd expect OU to be a contender most years. They were just rebuilding this year.

[Zippy87]

It's hard for me to expect Tavari to be the starting PG when Groce clearly didn't trust him enough to play him in games like last night. I'm not saying he can't be a rotation player or push for starter-like minutes next year, but banking on him as your starting PG would be a dangerous bet.

 

We need to be aggressive in nabbing an experienced PG in the portal.

[clarkwgriswold]

40 minutes ago, kreed5120 said:

Boals is a good coach. I'd expect OU to be a contender most years. They were just rebuilding this year.

And they really grew up as the season went on.

Edited March 11, 2023 by clarkwgriswold

[Let'sGoZips94]

Anybody know if there are any NIL possibilities for Freeman that would maybe sway him to stay if he's thinking about leaving?

[Zippy87]

1 hour ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

Anybody know if there are any NIL possibilities for Freeman that would maybe sway him to stay if he's thinking about leaving?

 

I haven't seen much from UA on NIL opportunities aside from OpenDorse, which basically looks like Cameo.

 

https://gozips.com/news/2022/12/9/general-akron-athletics-partners-with-opendorse-for-official-marketplace-for-zips-student-athletes

[zippy5]

I'd be shocked if that's not being worked on behind the scenes with donors 

[roopride]

Assume no one transfers out. Are we better next year? We loose 2 and add 4?

[NWAkron]

Just now, roopride said:

Assume no one transfers out. Are we better next year? We loose 2 and add 4?

Who the hell knows.at this point?  Unfortunately they just need to be better than three teams on three nights in March.

[roopride]

Same question.  Just posted differently.  Is the roster better/upgraded with right pieces? 

 

Not asking about wins. That we'll know when we play the games.

[Blue & Gold]

My disclaimer prior to posting is that I love anyone who wears the Akron blue & gold... but we've got such high character guys I'd love them even if they never played for Akron.  Having said that...

 

We're losing:

Hankerson - not a big deal. After watching for 10 games I was no longer ever surprised when he made regular mistakes 5th year seniors shouldn't make

X - And on the other hand... impossibly huge shoes to fill & no single player on this roster is remotely ready to fill them

 

We're returning (until we hear otherwise):

SENIORS:

Freeman - best big in the MAC & one of the best in the country. #1 priority for the staff is keeping Freeman.

Tribble - not a guard. Not even a wing. Greg is a 6'1 power forward. (Greg only hit on 1 3-pointer this year in 12 attempts. ONE. Obviously that's not D-1 caliber.) Groce love Tribble but good grief you simply don't have to guard him outside 4 feet from the basket.  And everyone in the MAC knows it. 

Dawson - can't wait to get him back in the lineup. Will fill Hankerson's role, only much better... but he's coming of an Achilles injury so we'll have to see if his mobility has been hampered.

Sammy - If he keeps playing like he did the last 2 weeks of the season he's an honorable mention all-MAC type of player.  But he's certainly an enigma.

 

JUNIOR:

Garvin - barely a D-1 caliber guard. Only hit 4 3-pointers all year. He's pure hustle & a tenacious defender but extremely inconsistent on the offensive end.

 

R-FR:

Kobe Mitchell - would be better off transferring to a level more suited to his game (honestly, we need him to transfer)

Nate Johnson - early in the season I called him a future pro, but he needs to quickly develop The Eye of the Tiger Mikal Dawson.  Against KSUcks as soon has the ball would hit his hands he was looking to pass before even glancing at the basket; he had zero will to score.  Obviously unacceptable. In the TP era we need him to develop The Eye of Mikal Dawson by NEXT year, NOT two years from now.  We need that development THIS OFF SEASON. If not, we're better off with him transferring to a level where he can just have fun playing and open up the scholarship for us

 

FRESHMEN:

Amani - Amani will be a serviceable big. He's not explosive but is powerfully built & will probably learn to bully most MAC bigs in the paint. I can't wait to see what his build looks like after an off season of working out. He's going to be huge. After a game against Amani you should need an ice bath. And once he learns a little pump fake at the rim I think he'll be a solid player off the bench. Who knows, if he can develop just a little more explosiveness, with that body, he could be a beast.

Tavari - I can see Tavari developing into something special. He's got a scorer's mentality (something currently sorely lacking on next year's roster), and while not terribly quick, is tricky with the ball. Once he gets just a little more comfortable with his teardrop J I think he's going to be devastating running the pick and roll - he does it quite well already; he's a natural. I can see Tavari being a regular 20 PPG scorer his junior & senior seasons.

Prather - who knows what to think? He's got nice size & was a 3-star prospect coming out of HS. But, if you remember, his senior year when he transferred to a new school (a stacked powerhouse, admittedly) his coach praised him for his willingness to be the team's 6th-man.  Frankly, that doesn't inspire me.  If someone's a D1 caliber player you'd better believe a HS coach starts him... and rarely takes him off the floor; you ride your horses.  Also (now I'm getting judgy), he's got that sleepy (too cool for school?) demeanor which drives me crazy, e.g., when a guy looks like he just woke up from a nap while sitting on the bench (Kobe Mitchell).  Need that fire in your belly. "There is a gleam, gentlemen. A gleam."  (I guess they all can't be Mikal Dawson.)

Prince - Another intriguing 3-star prospect.  Looks athletic and is apparently a stretch-4. But who knows; we get zero information about these guys. All I know is that Groce & Co. thought Amani would provide better minutes than Prince... so who knows what to expect. I do appreciate his demeanor on the bench.

 

Summary:

1. We all know it's impossible to over emphasize how important it is to retain Freeman. Frankly, if we lose Freeman I think we're going to suck next year.

2. We need to hit the TP hard for scoring guards. Plural. Tribble & Clarke are role players at best. Nate is a deer in headlights in big games. Get us some guards who can shoot and who want the ball in their hands.  That means we need two players to transfer out. Kobe is a no brainer. Coach Groce needs to have a heart-to-heart with Nate Johnson, but Nate's got so much potential I don't think he'll transfer.  There's no way Tribble is going to transfer as he is the heart and soul of the team. IMO that leaves Garvin Clarke. So yeah, in summary, I'm expecting Kobe & Garvin to transfer & for Groce & Co. to bring in two solid shooting cold blooded scoring guards who will both be starters from the jump next season. They had better. If not then it's going to be an awfully long, cold winter in the JAR next year.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Blue & Gold

[monrowe]

7 hours ago, NWAkron said:

Tribble has too many turnovers?

Tribble has played four years now and has not developed a jump shot. He slashes to the paint where defenses collapse and strip the ball. I watched it happen all year most recently last night.Although he does play great defense and can jump out the gym.He’s challenged at shooting and dribbling.He gets in the way a lot on offense.I think Joe Mo could find a position for him.

 

 

[Z.I.P.]

On the day that Enrique Freeman announces he's returning to Akron for his senior season John Groce should be awarded the 2024 MAC Coach of the Year Award.  This dude honestly could star at just about any school in America.  I can see Nate Oats dialing his number right now! 

[clarkwgriswold]

8 hours ago, monrowe said:

Tribble has played four years now and has not developed a jump shot. He slashes to the paint where defenses collapse and strip the ball. I watched it happen all year most recently last night.Although he does play great defense and can jump out the gym.He’s challenged at shooting and dribbling.He gets in the way a lot on offense.I think Joe Mo could find a position for him.

 

 

 

Tribble has the lowest turnover rate of any of the regular starters and was occasionally the point guard so I am not concerned with his dribbling.  He has a high dribble but his dribbling is fine.  

[1981 grad]

Last year I thought Tribble would hit the gym hard to develop a decent jump shot.  It did not happen.  Although Clark was injured early, his game did not get any better offensively and he stopped shooting the outside shot.  When those 2 were on the floor together, it made it easier for Kent to just clog the middle.  I am disappointed in that both players really did not improve their shooting over the off season.  I expected more improvement from these 2 players.

[clarkwgriswold]

9 minutes ago, 1981 grad said:

Last year I thought Tribble would hit the gym hard to develop a decent jump shot.  It did not happen.  Although Clark was injured early, his game did not get any better offensively and he stopped shooting the outside shot.  When those 2 were on the floor together, it made it easier for Kent to just clog the middle.  I am disappointed in that both players really did not improve their shooting over the off season.  I expected more improvement from these 2 players.

Greg seems like a disciplined hard-nosed kid.  Groce seems like he could be an appropriate taskmaster.  As such, at this point I don't think it's a lack of effort.  I just think his shooting technique has become so neurologically engrained that there's no fixing it at this late juncture.  I suspect that as a kid he was so athletically advanced and with inadequate coaching was never "fixed" when he was raw enough to have it happen.

[LoyalZIP]

Greg is fine. He runs the offense really well, and in late game crunch time situations this year he saved us quite a few times. Listening to Groce on the post game is always interesting but he talks about Greg offensively a lot as a point guard. The thing that bothered me about his game this year was he settled for too many of those ugly looking floater hook shot things. He shot way fewer free throws this year even after developing aggressive driving as probably his most valuable skill. That was really strange to see. His defense speaks for itself. I would say at most times, he lives up to the NBA All-Star in his role caliber player. 
 

Clarke has a lot of the same attributes. And you can see the offensive potential there. There’s just something keeping him from being a threat offensively. He handles it well, makes pretty good decisions, has a nice looking jump shot, has good moves inside. He just puts himself in bad situations a lot. 
 

Clarke or Tavari could have been the starting point guard on plenty of MAC teams this year. The were not up to the standard for Akron a lot of the year unfortunately. But I see a whole lot of great in Tavari’s game and his potential is enormous. 

[Blue & Gold]

31 minutes ago, 1981 grad said:

Last year I thought Tribble would hit the gym hard to develop a decent jump shot.  It did not happen.  Although Clark was injured early, his game did not get any better offensively and he stopped shooting the outside shot.  When those 2 were on the floor together, it made it easier for Kent to just clog the middle.  I am disappointed in that both players really did not improve their shooting over the off season.  I expected more improvement from these 2 players.

I'm sure Tribble hit the gym.  In fact I'd bet he's hit the gym religiously since his middle school days.  It's not fair but shooting a basketball has a lot to do with the genes the good Lord decided to bless you with. 

 

I had a friend in HS who was a natural. He hardly ever practiced but could simply stroke J's from range without even paying much attention to what he was doing.  But he also had a nice, fluid golf swing, a fluid baseball swing & a fluid pitching motion, all without putting much work into it.  Life's not fair!!! Lol.  

 

Clarke, on the other hand, has a much more natural looking jump shot.  He's just terribly inconsistent with it.  When the ball leaves his hand I never know where it is going to end up. To me, Clarke looks like he still gets too excited - his shots are almost always too long.

[Let'sGoZips94]

Tribble was in the gym and worked HARD. MANY videos posted by him daily in the gym. That's not the issue. It's strictly a mechanics issue that is too engrained in muscle memory, and that's ok. We don't need him to be a shooter. He just needs to continue to work on his handles (which are more than adequate), finishing at the rim, defense, and passing. He's not a hinderance on offense when we have 2-3 other players on the floor that can shoot. Freeman, Tribble, and 2-3 guys who can shoot is perfect.