Game 7- CMU

[catdaddyp]

2 minutes ago, Zipped Up said:

Other than Allar, Maendler’s QB factory looks like Lordstown, empty. He’s used that kid to his own self promotional success. 

Well, that’s 100% inaccurate. Here, I’ll list two of the upcoming QBs below. 
 

2024 - Ethan Grunkemeyer = One of the top performers at Elite 11. Penn State commit.

2025 - Ryan Montgomery = Top of the board for South Carolina, Florida, and Georgia. Along with numerous other offers.

[Let'sGoZips94]

25 minutes ago, Zipped Up said:

Me - exactly, but the portal is a short time fix at best. HS recruiting and development would be the best approach and getting local kids is Akrons only chance to get out of this rut. No good players are coming through the portal and no top recruits are coming from around the country given Akrons struggles. Only finding some under recruited kids who are from Ohio and who think Akron gives them a shot and it’s close, familiar et and the coaches can develop them will end this cycle of failure. 

 

Wrong. Just 1000% wrong. 

 

Akron's defense is one of the best in the MAC. Why? Transfer Portal. Our secondary is entirely P5 and leaps & bounds better than previous years, especially last year. Our LB corps has 2 anchors, one of which came from JUCO. 

 

We're talking about a sport where physical contact is the name of the game. Most 18/19 year old kids are physically under-developed compared to 20-22 year olds. Most P5 programs have a better strength & conditioning program (largely due to funding) than Akron. So players are coming in from the TP more developed physically. Especially on defense, the Transfer Portal will always be a huge key to success. 

 

Offensively, we have some absolute studs. George (PSU), Adams (LSU), Lingard (Florida), Anderson (Arizona/Northwestern), Banks (WVU), Newell (Arizona State), etc. These guys are being overshadowed by pee poor QB play & play calling. That doesn't mean the transfer portal hasn't been successful. 

 

Northeast Ohio has talent. The top talent goes P5. When you're an Akron, you can't fence yourself into a particular area. Northeast Ohio's secondary talent might not be as great as Western PA, Eastern Tennessee, Southern South Dakota. Go get the best talent available regardless of area. 

 

The key for sustained success is winning. I don't give a damn where the kids come from, just f'ing win. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Let'sGoZips94

[clarkwgriswold]

58 minutes ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

The key for sustained success is winning. I don't give a damn where the kids come from, just f'ing win. 

 

Exactly, I don't care whether the kids come from downtown Akron or Timbuktu or whether they are fresh 18 year-old greenhorns or 30 year old portal players, just give me competent players on the field, especially at the most important positions like QB.

 

If indeed our talent level at the other positions has improved as some suggest, an even average MAC level QB should be able to lead the team to wins.  

[Zipped Up]

4 hours ago, Let'sGoZips94 said:

 

Wrong. Just 1000% wrong. 

 

Akron's defense is one of the best in the MAC. Why? Transfer Portal. Our secondary is entirely P5 and leaps & bounds better than previous years, especially last year. Our LB corps has 2 anchors, one of which came from JUCO. 

 

We're talking about a sport where physical contact is the name of the game. Most 18/19 year old kids are physically under-developed compared to 20-22 year olds. Most P5 programs have a better strength & conditioning program (largely due to funding) than Akron. So players are coming in from the TP more developed physically. Especially on defense, the Transfer Portal will always be a huge key to success. 

 

Offensively, we have some absolute studs. George (PSU), Adams (LSU), Lingard (Florida), Anderson (Arizona/Northwestern), Banks (WVU), Newell (Arizona State), etc. These guys are being overshadowed by pee poor QB play & play calling. That doesn't mean the transfer portal hasn't been successful. 

 

Northeast Ohio has talent. The top talent goes P5. When you're an Akron, you can't fence yourself into a particular area. Northeast Ohio's secondary talent might not be as great as Western PA, Eastern Tennessee, Southern South Dakota. Go get the best talent available regardless of area. 

 

The key for sustained success is winning. I don't give a damn where the kids come from, just f'ing win. 

I’m not suggesting any team ignore the transfer portal. Akron’s improvement on defense is clearly due to the influx of transfers, but the portal is 3 frigging years old and for the better part of the last 40 years, transfers were few and far between. Miami made hay during those years and prior, by getting the second level kids that Ohio State didn’t grab or the Michigan’s and Michigan States etc. There was still enough talent they grabbed from NE Ohio to be one of the two dominant MAC programs. Now they don’t come recruit Ohio as hard and NE Ohio at all and they are no longer a dominant program. 
 

I stand by the reasoning that HS recruiting and development is far preferable to turning the roster over every two years and if you can land local “secondary” talent, all the better. Akron’s historic record isn’t good inside or outside, transfer or not. Yes, they need to find a QB from anywhere, but their greatest success was an under recruited kid from Willard who was looking for a good fit.  
 

And when I say NE Ohio, I’m not saying they need to find APS kids or Hoban kids, I’m talking the triangle from Lorain county through Cleveland to Youngstown back down to Massillon, Canton and Akron. If Akron outrecruited the rest of the MAC in that area, they would be a top tier MAC program. Miami’s past history proved that, and no one has filled the void. What the hell does UA have to lose trying. 40 years of mostly crap football would suggest nothing.
 

 

[GP1]

37 minutes ago, Zipped Up said:

What the hell does UA have to lose trying.

 

 

A lot more games. 

 

Akron doesn't need "secondary" (I get your meaning) players. They need primary players and players about to be primary. The juniors and seniors who can play should be retained. The juniors and seniors who cannot should be shown the URL for the transfer portal in order to make room for players who may become primary players now or in the future. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by GP1

[LoyalZIP]

You know what they say, the Miami of 40 years ago is the Akron of today. Or something like that. 
 

How much would Sean McVay want to coach Akron?

[dre22era]

If we are plucking anyone from Miami it should be Jason Taylor 

[Zipped Up]

14 hours ago, GP1 said:

A lot more games. 

 

Akron doesn't need "secondary" (I get your meaning) players. They need primary players and players about to be primary. The juniors and seniors who can play should be retained. The juniors and seniors who cannot should be shown the URL for the transfer portal in order to make room for players who may become primary players now or in the future. 

I don’t think you do know what I mean by secondary. I’m talking the level of recruit. 2 and 3 stars that the coaches know have greater potential to develop than what the rating services are suggesting. And that kid differs depending on where he lives. There is so much talent in the south now that every coach in the world thinks he can just throw his line in the water and land a big fish (Bowden), but the 4/5 stars go to the top SEC schools or a few other national powers,  then the really talented 3 stars go to the rest of the SEC schools or the Big 12 or ACC. Then the lower level 3 star goes to the  better Sun Belt or AAC schools and finally the better 2 stars stay close to home at those same conference schools. The rest of the kids who are barely 2 stars, unrated or over rated 3 stars (that most coaches in the region already recognize as such) are what is available to Akron or the MAC. Might you get an over looked kid now and then like Mumpfield, yes, but the majority are not even MAC worthy talent. They had no other options. 
 

Now in Ohio, every 4 or 5 star is generally going to OSU first, or the rest of the Big 10 or ND or maybe regional P5 like Pitt or WVU. The really good 3 stars (86-89 rated) are filling in the rest of the Big 10 schools. Now the lower 3 stars (85- 80) identified as having potential by the staff are going to have the MAC as their primary choice in most instances and should be a greater focus of Akron and every MAC school, but they are not because they are too focused on what they think they are getting from down south. They all think they are geniuses but they’re not. 
 

Even with Ohio not being as loaded with HS talent as years ago, the opportunity to get these “secondary” (lower rated 3 stars ID’d by the staff) is greater today because of the Ohio State’s and the Rest of the Big 10’s greater national focus. Ohio State is taking 4 and 5 stars at every position. If they’re from Ohio great, but their focus is only on the stars. In the olden days of my time, they took every Ohio kid who was a top 3 star. 80% of the roster was Ohio, Miami and Toledo got the low 3 stars that were left, developed them and thrived.  Now OSU isn’t taking Ohio kids unless they are 4 or 5 stars. Their roster is no more than 40% Ohio and a lot of those kids are walk-ons.  The pool of Ohio talent is somewhat smaller but the availability of lower 3 stars in Ohio that would be receptive to a MAC program is greater.

 

So, keep recruiting HS players from the south or outside Ohio and contiguous areas like western PA that have won nothing or rely on the portal where the same logic applies, getting kids who were 2 or 3 stars to begin with and didn’t pan out at their first choice. Neither approach has worked so far. You are not going to get a 4 or 5 star QB or lineman for that matter in the portal to come to Akron. Lingard is an anomaly. Even Moorhead has said he wants to recruit more locally and has shown it to some extent by recruiting his western PA roots, but IMO he is primarily recruiting for the here and now to get his next job , so the portal it is. 
 

I’ve enjoyed the back and forth but my old retired self is exhausted now.

[catdaddyp]

28 minutes ago, Zipped Up said:

I don’t think you do know what I mean by secondary. I’m talking the level of recruit. 2 and 3 stars that the coaches know have greater potential to develop than what the rating services are suggesting. And that kid differs depending on where he lives. There is so much talent in the south now that every coach in the world thinks he can just throw his line in the water and land a big fish (Bowden), but the 4/5 stars go to the top SEC schools or a few other national powers,  then the really talented 3 stars go to the rest of the SEC schools or the Big 12 or ACC. Then the lower level 3 star goes to the  better Sun Belt or AAC schools and finally the better 2 stars stay close to home at those same conference schools. The rest of the kids who are barely 2 stars, unrated or over rated 3 stars (that most coaches in the region already recognize as such) are what is available to Akron or the MAC. Might you get an over looked kid now and then like Mumpfield, yes, but the majority are not even MAC worthy talent. They had no other options. 
 

Now in Ohio, every 4 or 5 star is generally going to OSU first, or the rest of the Big 10 or ND or maybe regional P5 like Pitt or WVU. The really good 3 stars (86-89 rated) are filling in the rest of the Big 10 schools. Now the lower 3 stars (85- 80) identified as having potential by the staff are going to have the MAC as their primary choice in most instances and should be a greater focus of Akron and every MAC school, but they are not because they are too focused on what they think they are getting from down south. They all think they are geniuses but they’re not. 
 

Even with Ohio not being as loaded with HS talent as years ago, the opportunity to get these “secondary” (lower rated 3 stars ID’d by the staff) is greater today because of the Ohio State’s and the Rest of the Big 10’s greater national focus. Ohio State is taking 4 and 5 stars at every position. If they’re from Ohio great, but their focus is only on the stars. In the olden days of my time, they took every Ohio kid who was a top 3 star. 80% of the roster was Ohio, Miami and Toledo got the low 3 stars that were left, developed them and thrived.  Now OSU isn’t taking Ohio kids unless they are 4 or 5 stars. Their roster is no more than 40% Ohio and a lot of those kids are walk-ons.  The pool of Ohio talent is somewhat smaller but the availability of lower 3 stars in Ohio that would be receptive to a MAC program is greater.

 

So, keep recruiting HS players from the south or outside Ohio and contiguous areas like western PA that have won nothing or rely on the portal where the same logic applies, getting kids who were 2 or 3 stars to begin with and didn’t pan out at their first choice. Neither approach has worked so far. You are not going to get a 4 or 5 star QB or lineman for that matter in the portal to come to Akron. Lingard is an anomaly. Even Moorhead has said he wants to recruit more locally and has shown it to some extent by recruiting his western PA roots, but IMO he is primarily recruiting for the here and now to get his next job , so the portal it is. 
 

I’ve enjoyed the back and forth but my old retired self is exhausted now.

I appreciate the contribution to the board, but some of this is not correct. College coaches do not give a 💩 about stars. They recruit and evaluate based on what they see on tape and in person. Stars are for the fans and for the recruiting services to make money. The majority of time the stars will eventually align to 4 and 5 stars for the elite programs by the time signing day arrives, but many of those prospects start out as 3 stars if they have not competed in multiple camp settings. As offers are extended and the recruiting services get around to seeing the prospects in person, star bumps will occur. That being said, a large portion of 4 and 5 stars have competed in camp settings by the time they are seniors.

 

As far as Rivals is concerned, the majority of G5 commitments will be 2 stars. On3 and 247 will rate most G5s as low 3 stars because it’s good for business and gets more eyes on their product. 

 

We can all say what we want about the performance on the field, but what is not up for debate is the amount of connections JoeMo and this staff have. They aren’t going to recruit anyone who they do not believe will help this program. Plus, the interest has to be reciprocal between the recruits and staff.

[72 Roo]

"We can all say what we want about the performance on the field, but what is not up for debate is the amount of connections JoeMo and this staff have. They aren’t going to recruit anyone who they do not believe will help this program. Plus, the interest has to be reciprocal between the recruits and staff." - Catdaddyp

 

Help me understand, my friend, how JM and the staff missed so badly on QB depth? It doesn't make sense, especially when you look at their experience, past results and commitment to building the program. I need help here. Thanks.

[1981 grad]

I watched Bullocks high school tape and he looks amazing  However, he had all day to throw and his receivers are wide open.  It makes me wonder how do you evaluate a high school quarterback that is on a superior team that never faces any pass rush and can pick and choose to pass to wide open receivers.   Obviously, in Akron he has players in his face and his receivers are not wide open.   It is great that he is athletic and has a strong arm but he is not making quick decisions and has had difficulty throwing the ball.  Are the high school quarterbacks that are on teams with superior talent at all positions and consistently win championships and break records overrated and struggle when college levels the playing field?

[GP1]

6 hours ago, 1981 grad said:

 Are the high school quarterbacks that are on teams with superior talent at all positions and consistently win championships and break records overrated and struggle when college levels the playing field?

When I watch high school football, I wonder how a D1 program gets enough players to field a team. Heck, half the kickers can barely get the ball over the line in HS Most high school starters aren't D3 material, let alone D1. A kid can look like a superstar because everyone else is so bad. 

 

Fans have been duped into believing the star rating system means something. I think at the highest level it does, but the rest appears to be throwing darts blindfolded. Coaches are still heavily reliant on word of mouth from trusted high school coaches in regions. 

 

How bad of a job do coaches do at recruiting and how bad are decisions HS kids making? The massive numbers in the TP are a good indicator. Half of those will never play again. In reality, D1 programs could get away with around 65 scholarships and the average fan would never see a difference in the quality of play. https://www.axios.com/2023/05/11/ncaa-football-transfer-portal-record

 

 

[Chrisball96]

6 minutes ago, GP1 said:

When I watch high school football, I wonder how a D1 program gets enough players to field a team. Heck, half the kickers can barely get the ball over the line in HS Most high school starters aren't D3 material, let alone D1. A kid can look like a superstar because everyone else is so bad. 

 

Fans have been duped into believing the star rating system means something. I think at the highest level it does, but the rest appears to be throwing darts blindfolded. Coaches are still heavily reliant on word of mouth from trusted high school coaches in regions. 

 

How bad of a job do coaches do at recruiting and how bad are decisions HS kids making? The massive numbers in the TP are a good indicator. Half of those will never play again. In reality, D1 programs could get away with around 65 scholarships and the average fan would never see a difference in the quality of play. https://www.axios.com/2023/05/11/ncaa-football-transfer-portal-record

 

 

Any time you distill talent down from one level (HS) to another (college) you are going to get some washouts. Same as with the transition from colleges to the pros. It takes a completely different level of focus, attention, and ability to succeed even at a mediocre college program. You point out kicking and you’re right it does seem wildly inconsistent but that’s true even for some big programs, because it’s a skill that most HS football players don’t intentionally develop. 
 

As to the transfer portal I don’t see it as the result of some sort of flaw in rankings or the system overall. It’s just a way to allow players to get on the field and exercise their talent. The fact that it’s so full is just the reality that scouting kids out of high school is tough both because they are still growing and developing. It won’t always work out but I don’t think that’s anything of a new phenomenon. 
 

And I think the star system isn’t any sort of crystal ball and I think most coaches will admit that even if most fans put a lot more faith into it. That’s what these services are counting on by doing it because it generates hype, revenue, and to a certain extent, NIL. 
 

Again I’m not an expert on Akron football but just seems like the measuring stick should be how well we develop guys that we get regardless of star level. Just see some improvement in their play, get them to play above their perceived ranking, whatever that may be. And go from there. 

[Captain Kangaroo]

7 hours ago, 1981 grad said:

I watched Bullocks high school tape and he looks amazing  However, he had all day to throw and his receivers are wide open.  It makes me wonder how do you evaluate a high school quarterback that is on a superior team that never faces any pass rush and can pick and choose to pass to wide open receivers.   Obviously, in Akron he has players in his face and his receivers are not wide open.   It is great that he is athletic and has a strong arm but he is not making quick decisions and has had difficulty throwing the ball.  Are the high school quarterbacks that are on teams with superior talent at all positions and consistently win championships and break records overrated and struggle when college levels the playing field?

I was listening to the NFL Network a few months ago and Bill Polian was being interviewed. Speaking about drafting Peyton Manning, he said - "You don't want to know how close we were to drafting Ryan Leaf. It was a dead heat. In the end, Leaf didn't want to show up for a 3rd interview, and Peyton did, so we went with him."

 

So even at the highest level of football, with miles of film, the combine, and personal interviews conducted by people whole's sole job is evaluating talent...it can be tough to judge between a complete loser, and an all time great.

[catdaddyp]

9 hours ago, 72 Roo said:

"We can all say what we want about the performance on the field, but what is not up for debate is the amount of connections JoeMo and this staff have. They aren’t going to recruit anyone who they do not believe will help this program. Plus, the interest has to be reciprocal between the recruits and staff." - Catdaddyp

 

Help me understand, my friend, how JM and the staff missed so badly on QB depth? It doesn't make sense, especially when you look at their experience, past results and commitment to building the program. I need help here. Thanks.

Just my best guess on all of this, but the staff probably thought DJI would come back healthy and improve upon last year’s performance. We rolled the dice and lost there.

 

JU seemed much improved in the spring, yet has proven to be incredibly inconsistent in 2023. He’s limited in some of the throws he can make and when that’s the case he has to be more selective and efficient than what he’s been.

 

I suspect the staff thought Wasel and Jennings would not be needed this year and would be used as scout team/devo players.
 

Bullock clearly has all the physical traits needed to be successful, so the staff got it right on that front. However, he’s struggling with accuracy/decision making and that usually means he’s not quite where he needs to be mentally. For all we know, he could take a huge leap over the offseason and look like a completely different player next year. Unfortunately, he’s not where we need him to be now. There’s probably too much on his plate at this point in time. 

It also seems the staff was unwilling to bend on offensive concepts, which also caused some struggles. To top it off, the OL play hasn’t been consistent either. That being said, the OL probably had its best game in pass pro against CMU and we still struggled to throw the ball.
 

 

[Zipped Up]

20 hours ago, catdaddyp said:

I appreciate the contribution to the board, but some of this is not correct. College coaches do not give a 💩 about stars. They recruit and evaluate based on what they see on tape and in person. 

Ok, my last comment on this. I absolutely agree that coaches do not give a 💩 about stars. I used the stars in my example to demonstrate my theory that the level of recruit for Akron and other Ohio MAC schools, from far outside Ohio, is not greater than that which is still available within Ohio and surrounding areas. 
 

I appreciate your X’s and O’s analysis as an ex- coach, I assume, but as a parent of two boys who played college football, my knowledge is how recruiting works at all levels.

[Zipmeister]

On 10/15/2023 at 8:41 PM, Blue & Gold said:

We're in a tough spot. If we lose this week @ BUGS, our next game would be the Wagon Wheel game vs. KSUcks 😕

 

Technically, the Wagon Wheel game follows the BUGS game regardless of the outcome in Flatville.

[Blue & Gold]

2 minutes ago, Zipmeister said:

 

Technically, the Wagon Wheel game follows the BUGS game regardless of the outcome in Flatville.

Shoot... I think The 'Meister might be right?!

🤯🤯

 

😉

[Zipmeister]

18 minutes ago, Blue & Gold said:

Shoot... I think The 'Meister might be right?!

🤯🤯

 

😉

 

Hey, don't be surprised. I took two courses in  sports schedule reading while at the U (mostly to stay eligible for intercollegiate competition), and here the info learned so long ago is still paying dividends.